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what's up everybody happy wednesday we

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have a special show for you today uh

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with mr graham rendell and a jay

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christopher king

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um and we're going to

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talk about well

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whatever we want to talk about that's

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for sure

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um

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instead of starting this show as i

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usually do with a

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specific uh

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well you know a intro i'm going to start

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with a kind of a surprise audio

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testimony that i'm sure graham has

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already heard

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but hopefully it still surprises him

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nonetheless

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i'm sure you guys will be able to put it

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together and what it is and where it's

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from

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as it plays and after that i'll be right

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back in

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1942

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in

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june

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uh we went on the bombing mission i was

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flying bombers wellingtons

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over

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roar

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or otherwise so-called happy valley

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and

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the trip was

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we perform everything what was necessary

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drop the bombs on the target and on the

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way back

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while we were flying over the

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zoider sea

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which is

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the part of

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holland

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my rear gunner

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reported

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an aircraft approaching from the rear

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i told him that if this uh

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object comes too close then we'll have

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to open the fire on him

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and

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my

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idea was that perhaps it was a

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a german

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fighter aircraft equipped with the

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satchelite in the nose

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so

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when these things came close i wouldn't

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take any chance on it and

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i told my rear gunner to

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give him a blast

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so

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then he opened the fire on him

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maybe

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200 yards

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and at that

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distance

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this object was

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almost the size of the moon which was

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also visible at the same time

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maybe possibly a bit bigger we uh use

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the tracers in the machine guns the four

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machine guns in the rear turret

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and while this rear gun was shooting we

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could follow exactly the

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trajectory of the

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shells

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which were entering the

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that particular target now the peculiar

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thing about it was that um

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those were just uh going in and that was

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the end of it they wouldn't fall down

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and

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so-called tracers those tracers would

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just enter and that was it

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now for that lasted for

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possibly

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i know maybe two minutes

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and after that time

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the um

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this

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shining object suddenly changed the

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position

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and at a terrific speed moved over

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to

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our port side

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uh almost at the same distance

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about 200 yards from the wing

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and then it stayed there of course then

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uh both rear gunner and the front gunner

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opened the fire on my other and

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i could see the tracers entering the

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target again from

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under two angles at which i was sure

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that this was pretty close to 200 yards

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then

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because you could see the angle of uh

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crossing the tracers

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after a while

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it moved up

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took off at a

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fantastic speed at the

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at least 45 degrees angle and they just

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disappeared between the

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that was it um i'm pretty sure i

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confused grammy wrote a whole book on

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the foo fighters but

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i know for a fact well i mean i don't

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know for a fact but i can only assume

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that somehow someway

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he didn't know about this one is that

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right graeme a sergeant roman sebastian

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sabinsky three owner 301 squadron

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based in lincoln march 1942 that's what

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the story is it's the cover of the book

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basically that's what he's describing

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[Laughter]

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where did you find that i'll see i've

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read the transcript but i've i didn't

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realize it was available as an audio

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really yeah i found it and then that

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makes me happy uh national archives

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excellent

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yeah so there was this whole um

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kind of collection by i think her name

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was wendy connors like faded as it was

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called or something

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and so i don't know if it was all all

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the testimonies she has but there's a

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large chunk of uh audio recordings that

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were uploaded to national archives so

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i've been playing like two of those a

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day on the show because you know i feel

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like basically they're just there and

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dying and rotting away so i try to you

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know at least get a couple in there

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on every show so and i thought i've been

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holding onto this foo fighters one for a

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long time and today i was like oh it's

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perfect for today

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thank you

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yeah

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that's made my day

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awesome perfect well we're starting in

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hot so how's everybody doing how are you

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guys doing

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i'm doing great myself

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that was beautiful to hear i

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i don't have any knowledge of that case

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um

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graham's doing i'd love to hear more

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about that um uh before we move forward

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that would be amazing i mean that was

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actually like one of the best accounts

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that i've heard i mean that was

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incredibly straightforward but if

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there's any other information about it

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that they could help elucidate that case

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that's awesome yeah

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i'm i'm jealous actually that um i'm not

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with vinnie and um and dan actually you

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if i could be out in colombia like

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hiking up mountains and looking at

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strange lights in the distance that

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would be great and drinking all that

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wonderful coffee but um you know

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i'll um

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somebody's going to hold the fort but uh

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hold the fork back home so that's what

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i'm doing and i'm actually busy writing

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at the moment anyway so i'm still i'm

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deep in two projects which have pretty

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much

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more or less concluded and i've um i've

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got some

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things

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going on with them before they can get

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released so um so that's why i'm working

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on the moment and i can't say anything

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more about them in terms of that

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particular case so yeah

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um roman sabinsky

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and it's it's occasionally written as

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sabinsky or different spellings but it's

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sobinski in the official records

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three-on-one squadrons of polish crude

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squadron the raf uh they were based in

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lincolnshire in england and as he said

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they were coming back from a raid on

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what was actually yes and they were

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coming back from it in germany and they

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were flying over the zodiac sea which

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was much

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much bigger than it is now because a lot

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of that land has now been reclaimed by

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the dutch but back then it was a huge

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bit of water you know um the the islamic

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um and

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behind them there was this kind of

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copper-colored bronze-coloured object a

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big disk basically and as you said you

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know the gunner said look this thing's

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coming up behind us um and and

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submissively said look if it gets close

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enough give it a squirt you know open

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fire in it um which the gunner did but

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the bullets just went into it nothing

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happened and after a while after it shot

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at it a number of times it moved around

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to the wing tip or position off the

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wingtip and of course he was throwing

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their aircraft around apparently this

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time as well trying to get rid of it

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and it was just sitting there um and by

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that time it got to a position where

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both the the tail turret and the nose

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turret gunners could actually open fire

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at the same time or more or less at the

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same time and they were both having a

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squirt at it and it was still just

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absorbing the bullets somehow and then

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it moved around to a position off the

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nose of the aircraft keeping station as

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they were flying you know at a couple

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hundred miles an hour um and it was just

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sitting in a kind of fixed position and

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the nose gonna firing on it again

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nothing and then as you said at the end

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of the clip they just shot off into the

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stars at about 45 degree angle now the

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thing was that he doesn't mention there

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is that when he got back to the

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debriefing the the intelligence officer

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said have you been drinking that was the

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first thing he asked him but also

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the crew that were flying in the bomber

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stream behind subinski's aircraft they'd

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also seen it

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as well but they refused to talk about

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it

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so that's as much as there is the story

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goes cold after that there's nothing

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actually in the official records because

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i've looked at the squadron records for

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that raid and for him and his crew and

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their and their point in their part in

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the mission but there's nothing uh to

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you know that was actually put in the

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official records regarding that at least

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from the squadron's perspective now

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whether or not there was a different

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channel and that information is still

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sitting in the archive somewhere i

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haven't found that but it might be there

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somewhere um you know it's it could be

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just a question of somebody stumbling

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across it one day but it also could be

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that it never went forward that you

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there was too much stigma or they took

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you know to heart well you know you've

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been you know we just don't believe you

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kind of thing and not push the the story

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forward but he came forward that with

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that story in 1962 um he retold it to a

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vancouver-based researcher uh in that

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year and it made its way into the pages

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of flying saucer review and that's when

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it became public

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um but it's a very little known story uh

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i actually came across it via a french

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language book that was written in 1970 i

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believe so that's how i stumbled across

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the story and then traced it back from

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there but you know it's fairly obscure

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as jay says you know not many people

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have heard about it but i included in

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the book at length i tried to trace the

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crewmen as much as i could to try and

286
00:10:09,910 --> 00:10:06,240
get some idea of whether they'd spoken

287
00:10:11,590 --> 00:10:09,920
about it um and also dan and olaf um who

288
00:10:13,350 --> 00:10:11,600
you know well-known to people who watch

289
00:10:15,590 --> 00:10:13,360
this program they came up with that

290
00:10:17,590 --> 00:10:15,600
wonderful cover for the book uh of mine

291
00:10:19,269 --> 00:10:17,600
which you know sort of basically

292
00:10:21,110 --> 00:10:19,279
describes that in in great you know

293
00:10:22,150 --> 00:10:21,120
pictorial detail

294
00:10:25,030 --> 00:10:22,160
wow

295
00:10:26,790 --> 00:10:25,040
fantastic thank you so much for that

296
00:10:28,870 --> 00:10:26,800
that's amazing and it's a beautiful

297
00:10:31,269 --> 00:10:28,880
cover too that dan

298
00:10:32,949 --> 00:10:31,279
loves it is isn't it yeah it's wonderful

299
00:10:34,949 --> 00:10:32,959
yeah that's great i had no idea what the

300
00:10:36,230 --> 00:10:34,959
case was there so

301
00:10:39,430 --> 00:10:36,240
that's what it is

302
00:10:43,829 --> 00:10:39,440
yeah on ufos before roswell

303
00:10:46,550 --> 00:10:44,829
it's still

304
00:10:47,430 --> 00:10:46,560
available

305
00:10:49,590 --> 00:10:47,440
yep

306
00:10:51,509 --> 00:10:49,600
well i'm i'm glad you liked that because

307
00:10:53,350 --> 00:10:51,519
i got a kick out of it and you know in

308
00:10:56,069 --> 00:10:53,360
listening to it today

309
00:10:57,350 --> 00:10:56,079
um in the car before you know getting

310
00:10:59,590 --> 00:10:57,360
here to start up the episode and

311
00:11:02,230 --> 00:10:59,600
everything i was really amazed with uh

312
00:11:03,910 --> 00:11:02,240
how clear it sounded and you know you

313
00:11:06,069 --> 00:11:03,920
just kind of answered the question i

314
00:11:08,470 --> 00:11:06,079
would have asked you next which was

315
00:11:11,350 --> 00:11:08,480
um you know when it was recorded in its

316
00:11:12,949 --> 00:11:11,360
60s it said 1960 or something so that

317
00:11:14,790 --> 00:11:12,959
completely makes sense why it's so clear

318
00:11:15,990 --> 00:11:14,800
because a lot a lot of these testimonies

319
00:11:18,069 --> 00:11:16,000
when they're recorded closer to the

320
00:11:19,590 --> 00:11:18,079
actual date of the old sightings

321
00:11:21,350 --> 00:11:19,600
they're

322
00:11:23,269 --> 00:11:21,360
not so good although the old police

323
00:11:26,829 --> 00:11:23,279
sirens in the background are always

324
00:11:31,990 --> 00:11:29,750
absolutely yeah so

325
00:11:33,829 --> 00:11:32,000
i thought we would just kick it off if

326
00:11:36,710 --> 00:11:33,839
you guys are all right with it i mean uh

327
00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:36,720
talking about senator gillibrand um

328
00:11:41,110 --> 00:11:39,040
and uh it looks like she you know laid

329
00:11:44,230 --> 00:11:41,120
down the law a little bit to

330
00:11:46,230 --> 00:11:44,240
at this confirmation hearing and um

331
00:11:48,230 --> 00:11:46,240
you know i wonder if that spawned lou

332
00:11:50,629 --> 00:11:48,240
elizano coming out he said he had just

333
00:11:51,509 --> 00:11:50,639
been to dc with melon recently on jimmy

334
00:11:53,509 --> 00:11:51,519
church

335
00:11:55,509 --> 00:11:53,519
so um if anyone wants to give some

336
00:11:57,910 --> 00:11:55,519
thoughts maybe jay if you know what are

337
00:11:59,590 --> 00:11:57,920
you thinking uh just good news anything

338
00:12:01,829 --> 00:11:59,600
more than that

339
00:12:04,069 --> 00:12:01,839
sure no i i thought it was i thought it

340
00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:04,079
was interesting that she brought that up

341
00:12:08,150 --> 00:12:05,120
um

342
00:12:10,949 --> 00:12:08,160
you know the the ig nominee didn't seem

343
00:12:13,269 --> 00:12:10,959
that well read on the subject or at

344
00:12:15,590 --> 00:12:13,279
least but at the same time that that's

345
00:12:17,829 --> 00:12:15,600
kind of a tradition among nominees for

346
00:12:20,310 --> 00:12:17,839
all sorts of things in u.s government

347
00:12:22,870 --> 00:12:20,320
that's the kind of the go-to answer uh

348
00:12:25,030 --> 00:12:22,880
in many ways that that uh whether you're

349
00:12:27,509 --> 00:12:25,040
going to become a supreme court justice

350
00:12:29,110 --> 00:12:27,519
or an or an inspector general um if

351
00:12:30,629 --> 00:12:29,120
somebody asks you about something that's

352
00:12:32,870 --> 00:12:30,639
uncomfortable you just say you don't

353
00:12:34,949 --> 00:12:32,880
know anything about the topic and then

354
00:12:36,710 --> 00:12:34,959
they just kind of have to skip ahead i

355
00:12:39,269 --> 00:12:36,720
mean that's been that's been a tradition

356
00:12:42,150 --> 00:12:39,279
for decades now uh he did look

357
00:12:42,949 --> 00:12:42,160
legitimately a bit clueless i will say

358
00:12:45,430 --> 00:12:42,959
that

359
00:12:48,790 --> 00:12:45,440
um but but i think

360
00:12:51,030 --> 00:12:48,800
more at issue was gillibrand actually

361
00:12:54,230 --> 00:12:51,040
pressing that and i think that's

362
00:12:55,750 --> 00:12:54,240
important um maybe especially giving

363
00:12:58,230 --> 00:12:55,760
some of the things that lou was talking

364
00:13:03,750 --> 00:12:58,240
about last night in terms of the

365
00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:03,760
potentialities of maybe a a ufo sar or

366
00:13:08,069 --> 00:13:05,839
is this going to lead to something

367
00:13:09,750 --> 00:13:08,079
bigger than this office could it be

368
00:13:11,030 --> 00:13:09,760
something that would be

369
00:13:13,190 --> 00:13:11,040
um

370
00:13:15,509 --> 00:13:13,200
you know uh

371
00:13:17,430 --> 00:13:15,519
like a cabinet position would it be a

372
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:17,440
near cabinet position in the future

373
00:13:22,310 --> 00:13:19,440
things like that that kind of came up a

374
00:13:23,829 --> 00:13:22,320
little bit but um with regard to

375
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:23,839
gillibrand

376
00:13:27,430 --> 00:13:24,880
um

377
00:13:29,910 --> 00:13:27,440
i just you know i have to say like i i

378
00:13:31,670 --> 00:13:29,920
was really really impressed you know it

379
00:13:33,350 --> 00:13:31,680
was a cool thing to see

380
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:33,360
yeah uh graham

381
00:13:38,069 --> 00:13:36,000
yeah i mean i'm i'm from the uk so my

382
00:13:41,189 --> 00:13:38,079
sort of knowledge about u.s politics and

383
00:13:42,949 --> 00:13:41,199
how things work is extremely limited um

384
00:13:44,629 --> 00:13:42,959
i get my news about what happens across

385
00:13:46,870 --> 00:13:44,639
your side the pond from things like this

386
00:13:48,389 --> 00:13:46,880
and also from the bbc so i have a very

387
00:13:50,150 --> 00:13:48,399
limited understanding but i was looking

388
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:50,160
at his body language

389
00:13:54,069 --> 00:13:52,320
and he was uncomfortable he he clearly

390
00:13:55,670 --> 00:13:54,079
was caught on the hop in terms of he

391
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:55,680
hadn't done his homework

392
00:13:59,030 --> 00:13:57,360
and that's what it seemed to me now

393
00:14:00,949 --> 00:13:59,040
you're saying that that's pretty

394
00:14:02,310 --> 00:14:00,959
standard for people who you know don't

395
00:14:03,990 --> 00:14:02,320
necessarily know everything that they're

396
00:14:05,509 --> 00:14:04,000
going to be you know sort of under

397
00:14:07,350 --> 00:14:05,519
what they're going to be looking at and

398
00:14:09,350 --> 00:14:07,360
i guess that's true but he was clearly

399
00:14:11,430 --> 00:14:09,360
caught on the hop in terms of what may

400
00:14:13,189 --> 00:14:11,440
not have been expecting being asked that

401
00:14:15,910 --> 00:14:13,199
uh i couldn't really tell but he was

402
00:14:17,910 --> 00:14:15,920
definitely uncomfortable and his kind of

403
00:14:20,310 --> 00:14:17,920
his response when he was asked to

404
00:14:22,389 --> 00:14:20,320
provide a written answers or the written

405
00:14:25,590 --> 00:14:22,399
answers to that it was a kind of

406
00:14:27,670 --> 00:14:25,600
yes but it wasn't very convincing to me

407
00:14:29,269 --> 00:14:27,680
um but then again he's going to have his

408
00:14:30,710 --> 00:14:29,279
feet held to the fire isn't he because

409
00:14:32,069 --> 00:14:30,720
if he doesn't follow through that it's

410
00:14:34,389 --> 00:14:32,079
like a teacher who isn't a good setting

411
00:14:37,430 --> 00:14:34,399
homework you have to write this and i

412
00:14:38,629 --> 00:14:37,440
have to see it i have to read it um so

413
00:14:40,230 --> 00:14:38,639
you know he's not going to be able to

414
00:14:43,030 --> 00:14:40,240
just like worm his way out of it

415
00:14:44,870 --> 00:14:43,040
probably um which i don't know whether

416
00:14:47,269 --> 00:14:44,880
that's standard fare for these kind of

417
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:47,279
um these kind of sort of meetings and

418
00:14:51,430 --> 00:14:49,199
whether they test them and when they

419
00:14:53,269 --> 00:14:51,440
question them how how much how often

420
00:14:55,110 --> 00:14:53,279
does this this particular thing happen

421
00:14:56,470 --> 00:14:55,120
do they follow through much on it like

422
00:14:59,189 --> 00:14:56,480
this

423
00:15:01,350 --> 00:14:59,199
i feel like for the most part um they

424
00:15:03,269 --> 00:15:01,360
kind of choose what topics or what

425
00:15:05,590 --> 00:15:03,279
issues they would they want to highlight

426
00:15:06,389 --> 00:15:05,600
at these things typically it seems like

427
00:15:08,629 --> 00:15:06,399
um

428
00:15:10,470 --> 00:15:08,639
so that makes it even more interesting

429
00:15:12,389 --> 00:15:10,480
that you know that's one that she

430
00:15:14,790 --> 00:15:12,399
selected although it's it's a bill that

431
00:15:17,430 --> 00:15:14,800
you know has her name on it but um you

432
00:15:19,110 --> 00:15:17,440
can tell she has kids right uh because

433
00:15:21,350 --> 00:15:19,120
it was like she was talking to kids well

434
00:15:24,389 --> 00:15:21,360
can you give me written responses please

435
00:15:26,550 --> 00:15:24,399
and turn those in get yourself familiar

436
00:15:28,790 --> 00:15:26,560
um and she wasn't messing around and i'm

437
00:15:30,949 --> 00:15:28,800
glad somebody finally isn't and you know

438
00:15:31,910 --> 00:15:30,959
what i took from his response was oh

439
00:15:34,710 --> 00:15:31,920
yeah

440
00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:34,720
you know like

441
00:15:39,110 --> 00:15:36,959
it was quite it was very it wasn't it

442
00:15:40,550 --> 00:15:39,120
was almost non-committal it was yeah and

443
00:15:42,150 --> 00:15:40,560
he was just trying to say it just to get

444
00:15:44,150 --> 00:15:42,160
the question out the way so he could

445
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:44,160
move on the next thing but it didn't

446
00:15:47,670 --> 00:15:45,600
have a lot of conviction behind it i

447
00:15:50,550 --> 00:15:47,680
felt but yeah we'll see what comes out

448
00:15:53,310 --> 00:15:50,560
there as i tweeted earlier he can't now

449
00:15:55,430 --> 00:15:53,320
say i'm sorry my dog ate my homework

450
00:15:57,509 --> 00:15:55,440
[Laughter]

451
00:15:59,990 --> 00:15:57,519
yeah one of the one of the interesting

452
00:16:02,389 --> 00:16:00,000
things totally appreciated graham uh one

453
00:16:05,030 --> 00:16:02,399
of the interesting things that i noticed

454
00:16:06,470 --> 00:16:05,040
is you know often in situations like

455
00:16:09,350 --> 00:16:06,480
this where they have these kind of

456
00:16:11,350 --> 00:16:09,360
public grillings of nominees for various

457
00:16:13,749 --> 00:16:11,360
government positions that are unelected

458
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:13,759
and are appointed um

459
00:16:17,990 --> 00:16:16,079
you know it it becomes as

460
00:16:19,269 --> 00:16:18,000
a situation where

461
00:16:20,710 --> 00:16:19,279
there is

462
00:16:23,110 --> 00:16:20,720
um

463
00:16:25,030 --> 00:16:23,120
a litmus test you know there are litmus

464
00:16:28,150 --> 00:16:25,040
tests and they're usually along kind of

465
00:16:31,590 --> 00:16:28,160
partisan issues right and so it becomes

466
00:16:33,990 --> 00:16:31,600
a an aspect of public theater where a

467
00:16:35,269 --> 00:16:34,000
particularly democratic or independent

468
00:16:37,590 --> 00:16:35,279
or republican

469
00:16:39,509 --> 00:16:37,600
um uh senator

470
00:16:41,990 --> 00:16:39,519
or or somebody from the house might

471
00:16:44,550 --> 00:16:42,000
might be grilling somebody and will

472
00:16:46,710 --> 00:16:44,560
bring up a hot button issue and one of

473
00:16:48,629 --> 00:16:46,720
the interesting things about what

474
00:16:51,350 --> 00:16:48,639
what gillibrand did there is that this

475
00:16:53,269 --> 00:16:51,360
is a completely non-partisan issue you

476
00:16:56,230 --> 00:16:53,279
know i it's one of the

477
00:16:57,829 --> 00:16:56,240
as we've uh we've often noted

478
00:17:00,870 --> 00:16:57,839
this is one of the few topics in

479
00:17:03,110 --> 00:17:00,880
washington that covers the gamut

480
00:17:04,949 --> 00:17:03,120
um from from the left to the right wing

481
00:17:08,069 --> 00:17:04,959
and anywhere in between

482
00:17:10,949 --> 00:17:08,079
and so her using that as a litmus test

483
00:17:13,029 --> 00:17:10,959
despite its non-partisan nature is

484
00:17:15,350 --> 00:17:13,039
actually that's one of the more

485
00:17:16,630 --> 00:17:15,360
notable things possibly about her

486
00:17:19,189 --> 00:17:16,640
bringing it up

487
00:17:22,309 --> 00:17:19,199
that it it was speaking to

488
00:17:23,909 --> 00:17:22,319
the the core of that particular issue

489
00:17:26,949 --> 00:17:23,919
rather than kind of

490
00:17:29,830 --> 00:17:29,110
exactly exactly something that's kind of

491
00:17:31,909 --> 00:17:29,840
like

492
00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:31,919
you know looking to score points among

493
00:17:36,150 --> 00:17:34,080
that person's favored

494
00:17:37,990 --> 00:17:36,160
wing of the party or something like that

495
00:17:40,230 --> 00:17:38,000
so that was really cool to see in that

496
00:17:41,029 --> 00:17:40,240
way for sure

497
00:17:42,549 --> 00:17:41,039
so

498
00:17:43,750 --> 00:17:42,559
can you just explain to me because i'm

499
00:17:45,750 --> 00:17:43,760
not entirely sure how all this works

500
00:17:48,150 --> 00:17:45,760
when you say he's a nominee is he the

501
00:17:49,830 --> 00:17:48,160
only one who's like nominated to fill a

502
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:49,840
position is he like a political

503
00:17:53,029 --> 00:17:51,360
appointment and they're just basically

504
00:17:55,110 --> 00:17:53,039
testing him to like see whether he's

505
00:17:56,390 --> 00:17:55,120
suitable or are there other people in

506
00:17:58,230 --> 00:17:56,400
the works who are going to come forward

507
00:18:01,110 --> 00:17:58,240
and go through the same kind of um you

508
00:18:02,789 --> 00:18:01,120
know procedure they'd have a short list

509
00:18:05,190 --> 00:18:02,799
but this would be the nominee and so

510
00:18:07,350 --> 00:18:05,200
this would be the current nominee and if

511
00:18:10,789 --> 00:18:07,360
there wasn't significant approval for

512
00:18:12,549 --> 00:18:10,799
him among the body then uh then somebody

513
00:18:14,390 --> 00:18:12,559
else then that person would either

514
00:18:16,230 --> 00:18:14,400
withdraw their name

515
00:18:18,630 --> 00:18:16,240
before getting voted down

516
00:18:19,990 --> 00:18:18,640
and then they would go to a short list

517
00:18:22,070 --> 00:18:20,000
like a private short list that's

518
00:18:23,830 --> 00:18:22,080
probably already been established yeah

519
00:18:27,270 --> 00:18:23,840
um and then they would come up with

520
00:18:28,870 --> 00:18:27,280
somebody else and so it it it

521
00:18:31,190 --> 00:18:28,880
there's a lot of heat that kind of comes

522
00:18:33,029 --> 00:18:31,200
with it because there's no other ready

523
00:18:35,590 --> 00:18:33,039
option it's either this and then they

524
00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:35,600
either kind of fall down or they or they

525
00:18:39,830 --> 00:18:37,280
ascend you know

526
00:18:42,470 --> 00:18:39,840
after after these strange

527
00:18:44,070 --> 00:18:42,480
um public theater operations and of

528
00:18:46,310 --> 00:18:44,080
course it mustn't be a good look you

529
00:18:48,470 --> 00:18:46,320
know sort of uh publicly or even for

530
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:48,480
their career if they do get say voted

531
00:18:51,750 --> 00:18:50,480
down or they do have to step down so

532
00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:51,760
they have to make sure they're on top of

533
00:18:55,590 --> 00:18:53,760
their brief presumably so this is

534
00:18:58,070 --> 00:18:55,600
it almost seems quite damaging that

535
00:18:59,990 --> 00:18:58,080
somebody you've asked him you know you

536
00:19:01,990 --> 00:19:00,000
something to say that right across the

537
00:19:03,430 --> 00:19:02,000
kind of the spectrum you know about this

538
00:19:04,950 --> 00:19:03,440
issue and then he's you sort of

539
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:04,960
floundered if you like

540
00:19:08,070 --> 00:19:06,640
and said you know i don't really know

541
00:19:09,350 --> 00:19:08,080
anything about that and you would have

542
00:19:10,789 --> 00:19:09,360
thought well sure you must have some

543
00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:10,799
kind of working knowledge of what it

544
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:12,960
represents even if he isn't totally on

545
00:19:17,270 --> 00:19:14,720
top of the subject you thought you'd

546
00:19:20,230 --> 00:19:17,280
have a kind of an overview at least of

547
00:19:21,669 --> 00:19:20,240
what uap are and what's you know what's

548
00:19:23,510 --> 00:19:21,679
been going through the the national

549
00:19:24,630 --> 00:19:23,520
defense authorization act and and you

550
00:19:26,150 --> 00:19:24,640
know everything else that's been going

551
00:19:27,590 --> 00:19:26,160
on i would have thought it's fairly

552
00:19:29,909 --> 00:19:27,600
strange

553
00:19:32,150 --> 00:19:29,919
yeah and you know the other part that

554
00:19:34,310 --> 00:19:32,160
you know may be somewhat obvious but i

555
00:19:35,590 --> 00:19:34,320
mean if you if you step back and just

556
00:19:37,350 --> 00:19:35,600
look at

557
00:19:39,590 --> 00:19:37,360
uh the fact that

558
00:19:42,470 --> 00:19:39,600
man this is a topic

559
00:19:44,710 --> 00:19:42,480
that's in the news and being mentioned

560
00:19:47,669 --> 00:19:44,720
at these things at all

561
00:19:49,669 --> 00:19:47,679
is is just um you know other people have

562
00:19:51,750 --> 00:19:49,679
a bigger appreciation for it who have

563
00:19:53,510 --> 00:19:51,760
been doing this for a lot longer than me

564
00:19:55,029 --> 00:19:53,520
but you know it's still not lost on me

565
00:19:56,549 --> 00:19:55,039
that man

566
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:56,559
that's pretty cool

567
00:19:58,630 --> 00:19:57,520
so

568
00:19:59,830 --> 00:19:58,640
um

569
00:20:01,270 --> 00:19:59,840
i think you know

570
00:20:03,510 --> 00:20:01,280
again

571
00:20:05,669 --> 00:20:03,520
i might say about that is that we think

572
00:20:06,710 --> 00:20:05,679
this is a big topic you know everybody

573
00:20:09,110 --> 00:20:06,720
here the people out there in the

574
00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:09,120
audience and people who who who we

575
00:20:13,190 --> 00:20:11,280
associate with but yeah in the wider

576
00:20:14,630 --> 00:20:13,200
world we just i just wonder how big a

577
00:20:16,310 --> 00:20:14,640
topic is it

578
00:20:18,870 --> 00:20:16,320
politically you know in the white house

579
00:20:20,870 --> 00:20:18,880
and and below that and all these kind of

580
00:20:22,390 --> 00:20:20,880
um committees and all the rest of it is

581
00:20:24,630 --> 00:20:22,400
it something that you know they are

582
00:20:26,950 --> 00:20:24,640
going to take notice of uh or is it are

583
00:20:29,029 --> 00:20:26,960
we bigging it up too much

584
00:20:30,950 --> 00:20:29,039
uh i don't think so because gilda brands

585
00:20:33,029 --> 00:20:30,960
actually you know i think it's gonna

586
00:20:35,029 --> 00:20:33,039
pick up as long as people like her stay

587
00:20:36,710 --> 00:20:35,039
strong and and more people kind of you

588
00:20:39,110 --> 00:20:36,720
know come to her aid and don't just let

589
00:20:41,110 --> 00:20:39,120
her be there by herself i think you know

590
00:20:43,590 --> 00:20:41,120
it'll only pick up steam but it's also

591
00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:43,600
to me also comes down to how important

592
00:20:48,470 --> 00:20:45,760
is this really like you said but more on

593
00:20:51,190 --> 00:20:48,480
a like an emergency basis how big of a

594
00:20:54,149 --> 00:20:51,200
deal is this really to aviators like can

595
00:20:55,990 --> 00:20:54,159
they not conduct their business or it

596
00:20:57,270 --> 00:20:56,000
can they conduct business as usual with

597
00:20:59,270 --> 00:20:57,280
something like this going on i thought

598
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:59,280
we would just somebody asked where to

599
00:21:02,149 --> 00:21:00,640
see the clip so i thought i would just

600
00:21:04,310 --> 00:21:02,159
bring it up quick on twitter so people

601
00:21:05,669 --> 00:21:04,320
can see it if you guys don't mind

602
00:21:07,270 --> 00:21:05,679
um well

603
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:07,280
yeah

604
00:21:12,230 --> 00:21:09,520
um mr storch in your current position as

605
00:21:15,350 --> 00:21:12,240
nsa inspector general are you familiar

606
00:21:17,909 --> 00:21:15,360
with the dod's ig's ongoing assessment

607
00:21:19,909 --> 00:21:17,919
of the response from dod components to

608
00:21:23,350 --> 00:21:19,919
the intrusions of unidentified aerial

609
00:21:26,070 --> 00:21:23,360
phenomenon into controlled dod airspace

610
00:21:28,149 --> 00:21:26,080
as well as uap activity around naval and

611
00:21:31,029 --> 00:21:28,159
air operations further do you think the

612
00:21:34,149 --> 00:21:31,039
nsa has been responsive to the dod's ig

613
00:21:37,990 --> 00:21:35,750
uh thank you for the

614
00:21:39,909 --> 00:21:38,000
question senator i'm afraid that's not

615
00:21:41,990 --> 00:21:39,919
an issue with which i am currently

616
00:21:45,110 --> 00:21:42,000
familiar however if confirmed i

617
00:21:50,549 --> 00:21:47,270
certainly

618
00:21:52,950 --> 00:21:50,559
am uh willing to look into that and to

619
00:21:54,149 --> 00:21:52,960
take any action that's appropriate

620
00:21:55,830 --> 00:21:54,159
well thank you

621
00:21:58,149 --> 00:21:55,840
and if confirmed can i have your

622
00:21:59,510 --> 00:21:58,159
commitment to sustain this comprehensive

623
00:22:01,669 --> 00:21:59,520
assessment until it reaches its

624
00:22:04,070 --> 00:22:01,679
appropriate conclusion including the

625
00:22:05,669 --> 00:22:04,080
possibility of follow-on actions such as

626
00:22:07,909 --> 00:22:05,679
audits or investigations if the

627
00:22:09,830 --> 00:22:07,919
assessment recommends as much

628
00:22:12,310 --> 00:22:09,840
well again i honestly am not familiar

629
00:22:14,070 --> 00:22:12,320
with that particular review but as is

630
00:22:15,750 --> 00:22:14,080
typical i think across the ig community

631
00:22:18,230 --> 00:22:15,760
when a new ig comes in if their pending

632
00:22:19,909 --> 00:22:18,240
matters those would continue in in the

633
00:22:22,230 --> 00:22:19,919
office and it would be perfectly

634
00:22:24,549 --> 00:22:22,240
appropriate to examine them and if i am

635
00:22:26,230 --> 00:22:24,559
confirmed i can assure you that anything

636
00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:26,240
that's pending went out in the office

637
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:28,880
i'll i'll give my best attention to if

638
00:22:31,990 --> 00:22:30,640
there's appropriate follow-up to be done

639
00:22:33,990 --> 00:22:32,000
we'll do it

640
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:34,000
okay so since you aren't familiar can

641
00:22:37,510 --> 00:22:35,760
you please familiarize yourself with

642
00:22:39,029 --> 00:22:37,520
this issue

643
00:22:42,470 --> 00:22:39,039
respond to both of those questions in

644
00:22:44,570 --> 00:22:42,480
writing before your confirmation please

645
00:22:47,510 --> 00:22:44,580
yes ma'am

646
00:22:50,630 --> 00:22:47,520
[Laughter]

647
00:22:53,350 --> 00:22:50,640
one more time okay familiarize your

648
00:22:56,230 --> 00:22:53,360
confirmation please

649
00:23:03,430 --> 00:22:57,909
that's gonna be that's gonna be a meme

650
00:23:03,440 --> 00:23:08,950
yes ma'am

651
00:23:13,350 --> 00:23:10,789
so yeah thanks for letting me play that

652
00:23:15,909 --> 00:23:13,360
so i just wanted to do that but um you

653
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:15,919
know um kind of move a little bit past

654
00:23:20,310 --> 00:23:18,400
that we had lou elizondo on jimmy church

655
00:23:21,990 --> 00:23:20,320
did you guys have a opportunity to take

656
00:23:23,669 --> 00:23:22,000
a listen to that at all i know it was

657
00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:23,679
just last night so

658
00:23:29,350 --> 00:23:25,440
i i didn't get to listen to all of it

659
00:23:31,110 --> 00:23:29,360
yet um you know being honest but um you

660
00:23:33,350 --> 00:23:31,120
know there were some takeaways and i saw

661
00:23:34,950 --> 00:23:33,360
some chatter on twitter so

662
00:23:37,190 --> 00:23:34,960
i heard most of it

663
00:23:39,270 --> 00:23:37,200
um not the whole thing i i kind of i

664
00:23:42,549 --> 00:23:39,280
tuned in maybe 15 minutes then or

665
00:23:43,510 --> 00:23:42,559
something like that i saw joe merges uh

666
00:23:45,750 --> 00:23:43,520
uh

667
00:23:46,870 --> 00:23:45,760
synopsis of the rest of it from before

668
00:23:48,390 --> 00:23:46,880
that you know

669
00:23:50,230 --> 00:23:48,400
which is pretty awesome that he does

670
00:23:52,549 --> 00:23:50,240
that by the way it's about 100 it's 100

671
00:23:54,950 --> 00:23:52,559
and something tweets now i think it went

672
00:23:56,630 --> 00:23:54,960
up to um i've read it i haven't actually

673
00:23:58,390 --> 00:23:56,640
digested all of it but that's how i

674
00:24:00,710 --> 00:23:58,400
that's how i've come across what was you

675
00:24:03,190 --> 00:24:00,720
know discussed um it's not too late for

676
00:24:06,149 --> 00:24:03,200
me i'm afraid in the uk so

677
00:24:07,909 --> 00:24:06,159
yeah oh absolutely yeah yeah and you

678
00:24:09,669 --> 00:24:07,919
know it's hard to get through some of

679
00:24:13,590 --> 00:24:09,679
the commercials sometimes on the on the

680
00:24:15,190 --> 00:24:13,600
youtube page like man are those rough

681
00:24:17,190 --> 00:24:15,200
does he want me to buy tea or does he

682
00:24:18,630 --> 00:24:17,200
want me to buy coffee i don't understand

683
00:24:23,110 --> 00:24:18,640
like

684
00:24:24,470 --> 00:24:23,120
tea or coffee

685
00:24:25,669 --> 00:24:24,480
yeah so

686
00:24:27,909 --> 00:24:25,679
i mean

687
00:24:30,310 --> 00:24:27,919
i guess you know k-42 d has any new

688
00:24:33,029 --> 00:24:30,320
takeaways from lou um

689
00:24:34,310 --> 00:24:33,039
the one that i would take away is um

690
00:24:35,909 --> 00:24:34,320
that

691
00:24:38,950 --> 00:24:35,919
you know i think this is something

692
00:24:41,029 --> 00:24:38,960
that's still growing you know i think um

693
00:24:42,950 --> 00:24:41,039
and it also seems that

694
00:24:45,029 --> 00:24:42,960
people from the dod and maybe even the

695
00:24:47,590 --> 00:24:45,039
air force and other people are kind of

696
00:24:50,230 --> 00:24:47,600
um i don't know rising up or actually

697
00:24:53,190 --> 00:24:50,240
moving on this topic and the people that

698
00:24:54,630 --> 00:24:53,200
may have been holding it this back um

699
00:24:57,350 --> 00:24:54,640
you know to some extent in the past

700
00:24:58,310 --> 00:24:57,360
maybe are losing a little bit of ground

701
00:25:00,390 --> 00:24:58,320
um

702
00:25:03,510 --> 00:25:00,400
you know so and then he gave a shout out

703
00:25:05,110 --> 00:25:03,520
to avril haynes dni errol haynes so she

704
00:25:07,510 --> 00:25:05,120
must be taking care of business which is

705
00:25:09,269 --> 00:25:07,520
awesome um she is the one that awkwardly

706
00:25:10,230 --> 00:25:09,279
said extraterrestrial

707
00:25:11,350 --> 00:25:10,240
ali

708
00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:11,360
so

709
00:25:17,029 --> 00:25:14,880
people are making too much of that or

710
00:25:18,789 --> 00:25:17,039
not because i know they you know even

711
00:25:21,350 --> 00:25:18,799
like meteors or

712
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,360
or other things can be defined as

713
00:25:26,470 --> 00:25:23,760
extraterrestrial you know

714
00:25:28,149 --> 00:25:26,480
so i'm not sure but you know it is what

715
00:25:28,950 --> 00:25:28,159
it is she had her opportunity to recant

716
00:25:30,230 --> 00:25:28,960
that

717
00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:30,240
you know knowing what people were

718
00:25:32,870 --> 00:25:31,520
writing about it and stuff and she

719
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:32,880
didn't so

720
00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:34,720
um and you know

721
00:25:39,990 --> 00:25:37,440
and he really went off on you know

722
00:25:41,350 --> 00:25:40,000
swindlers um you know he didn't name

723
00:25:44,230 --> 00:25:41,360
names but

724
00:25:47,110 --> 00:25:44,240
talked about 1700 tickets and the flair

725
00:25:48,230 --> 00:25:47,120
thing again that he brings up often and

726
00:25:50,549 --> 00:25:48,240
um

727
00:25:51,830 --> 00:25:50,559
you know and you know people that pretty

728
00:25:54,310 --> 00:25:51,840
much say that

729
00:25:55,750 --> 00:25:54,320
um you know what i say is is the right

730
00:25:58,789 --> 00:25:55,760
thing and that's the only right thing

731
00:26:01,430 --> 00:25:58,799
and to be careful of those people and

732
00:26:03,110 --> 00:26:01,440
you know i think um

733
00:26:06,149 --> 00:26:03,120
you know it seems

734
00:26:08,830 --> 00:26:06,159
quite clear to me that the documentary

735
00:26:13,190 --> 00:26:08,840
that was made about him on youtube

736
00:26:15,590 --> 00:26:13,200
um was pretty irritating

737
00:26:17,830 --> 00:26:15,600
you know damn i think it it if i'm

738
00:26:19,909 --> 00:26:17,840
guessing it seemed like uh it it

739
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:19,919
affected him a little bit and i can

740
00:26:23,269 --> 00:26:21,360
understand that because when i was

741
00:26:24,950 --> 00:26:23,279
listening to it and i'll let you guys

742
00:26:26,310 --> 00:26:24,960
talk after this when i was listening to

743
00:26:28,310 --> 00:26:26,320
it and i don't want to spend too much

744
00:26:29,510 --> 00:26:28,320
time on it because i don't like giving

745
00:26:32,310 --> 00:26:29,520
attention to

746
00:26:34,950 --> 00:26:32,320
that kind of stuff really but um

747
00:26:36,549 --> 00:26:34,960
it kind of seems stalkery to me you know

748
00:26:37,430 --> 00:26:36,559
like finding out about

749
00:26:38,549 --> 00:26:37,440
uh

750
00:26:40,390 --> 00:26:38,559
other

751
00:26:42,149 --> 00:26:40,400
you know children and all these places

752
00:26:43,909 --> 00:26:42,159
that are lived and is getting into his

753
00:26:46,870 --> 00:26:43,919
wife's records and all this stuff it's

754
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:46,880
like and in the end like nothing of

755
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:50,159
meaning was shared on the thing so what

756
00:26:55,029 --> 00:26:52,480
was really accomplished it was

757
00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:55,039
uh a creeper's journey to too much

758
00:26:58,070 --> 00:26:56,240
information

759
00:26:58,789 --> 00:26:58,080
really you know

760
00:27:00,789 --> 00:26:58,799
so

761
00:27:02,870 --> 00:27:00,799
um and he thought he just hit that at

762
00:27:04,070 --> 00:27:02,880
the start rally um and then moved past

763
00:27:04,870 --> 00:27:04,080
it but

764
00:27:07,350 --> 00:27:04,880
um

765
00:27:10,710 --> 00:27:07,360
and he really likes jeeps so that's what

766
00:27:15,350 --> 00:27:12,789
but i didn't finish it either so

767
00:27:16,710 --> 00:27:15,360
i know there's other stuff mentioned

768
00:27:18,870 --> 00:27:16,720
you guys read the whole thing so you

769
00:27:20,149 --> 00:27:18,880
probably have more to say

770
00:27:21,830 --> 00:27:20,159
yeah i mean i'm not going to mention i'm

771
00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:21,840
not going to talk about the documentary

772
00:27:29,269 --> 00:27:22,960
um

773
00:27:30,789 --> 00:27:29,279
somebody's family that that's just all

774
00:27:33,029 --> 00:27:30,799
wrong i'm sorry it doesn't matter which

775
00:27:34,630 --> 00:27:33,039
way you go for it um there's no need for

776
00:27:36,630 --> 00:27:34,640
that so i'm not going to give it any

777
00:27:38,310 --> 00:27:36,640
oxygen or publicity by speaking about it

778
00:27:40,470 --> 00:27:38,320
further yep

779
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:40,480
no yeah that's good um if you read the

780
00:27:46,070 --> 00:27:43,360
whole thread of mr ufo joe which you can

781
00:27:48,710 --> 00:27:46,080
check out on twitter he's an amazing guy

782
00:27:50,230 --> 00:27:48,720
who uh kind of transcribes these whole

783
00:27:51,750 --> 00:27:50,240
things um

784
00:27:53,110 --> 00:27:51,760
you know which is really awesome doesn't

785
00:27:55,190 --> 00:27:53,120
get enough credit for that that's for

786
00:27:57,029 --> 00:27:55,200
sure because it helps so many people um

787
00:27:58,950 --> 00:27:57,039
but did you guys get any other takeaways

788
00:28:00,389 --> 00:27:58,960
from the thread if

789
00:28:02,230 --> 00:28:00,399
you went through it

790
00:28:06,549 --> 00:28:02,240
um

791
00:28:09,029 --> 00:28:06,559
ufos are doesn't he or he's asked about

792
00:28:12,710 --> 00:28:09,039
that rather um

793
00:28:14,389 --> 00:28:12,720
i mean who who would be the ufo czar

794
00:28:16,789 --> 00:28:14,399
you would be would you put yourself

795
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:16,799
forward sean me yeah they're not gonna

796
00:28:20,149 --> 00:28:18,720
pick me though i don't have a college

797
00:28:23,510 --> 00:28:20,159
education

798
00:28:25,430 --> 00:28:23,520
um most of my um you know work histories

799
00:28:27,830 --> 00:28:25,440
and sales which may or may not be good

800
00:28:30,310 --> 00:28:27,840
for that but

801
00:28:32,310 --> 00:28:30,320
do they need one though i mean because i

802
00:28:33,830 --> 00:28:32,320
guess in some ways lou and chris mellon

803
00:28:35,830 --> 00:28:33,840
are seen as figureheads in this kind of

804
00:28:38,070 --> 00:28:35,840
movement um

805
00:28:40,230 --> 00:28:38,080
i mean unless it's one of them would

806
00:28:42,630 --> 00:28:40,240
they would anybody else be able to step

807
00:28:45,190 --> 00:28:42,640
up to do this job uh would it like say

808
00:28:47,669 --> 00:28:45,200
marco rubio or something like that you

809
00:28:49,830 --> 00:28:47,679
know who would you be looking at

810
00:28:52,230 --> 00:28:49,840
yeah personally i feel like

811
00:28:53,909 --> 00:28:52,240
like chris millen would probably be if

812
00:28:55,669 --> 00:28:53,919
there's one person that they were

813
00:28:59,269 --> 00:28:55,679
looking at right now it would probably

814
00:29:00,789 --> 00:28:59,279
be him because of his as lou put it last

815
00:29:03,350 --> 00:29:00,799
night he was like oh you know chris

816
00:29:04,710 --> 00:29:03,360
millen he's always playing 3d chess

817
00:29:06,389 --> 00:29:04,720
when the rest of us are playing

818
00:29:08,549 --> 00:29:06,399
foursquare or whatever the exact quote

819
00:29:11,350 --> 00:29:08,559
yeah that was more or less a quote yeah

820
00:29:13,830 --> 00:29:11,360
yeah and um and

821
00:29:15,750 --> 00:29:13,840
when uh one other takeaway from last

822
00:29:18,310 --> 00:29:15,760
night was that lou was saying

823
00:29:20,230 --> 00:29:18,320
that um that there are other issues that

824
00:29:22,789 --> 00:29:20,240
he wants to talk about and he was like

825
00:29:28,549 --> 00:29:22,799
this is just one of you know

826
00:29:32,870 --> 00:29:30,630
he did and so there he said there were

827
00:29:34,149 --> 00:29:32,880
at least three or four other

828
00:29:36,149 --> 00:29:34,159
you know it sounded like there was a

829
00:29:38,870 --> 00:29:36,159
handful a good handful of issues that he

830
00:29:42,549 --> 00:29:38,880
wanted to really kind of tackle

831
00:29:44,710 --> 00:29:42,559
he said kind of after this issue and so

832
00:29:46,710 --> 00:29:44,720
that gets me to a position where it

833
00:29:48,310 --> 00:29:46,720
reminds me that in the past people have

834
00:29:50,230 --> 00:29:48,320
asked him about whether he'd ever run

835
00:29:52,470 --> 00:29:50,240
for office or something like that you

836
00:29:54,789 --> 00:29:52,480
know and so

837
00:29:56,630 --> 00:29:54,799
in that kind of a situation it

838
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:56,640
even seems more

839
00:30:02,630 --> 00:29:58,960
applicable that millen would be the the

840
00:30:04,470 --> 00:30:02,640
guy of the two of them in terms of um

841
00:30:06,789 --> 00:30:04,480
his understanding of the intelligence

842
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:06,799
community his understanding of white

843
00:30:11,430 --> 00:30:08,960
house politics his understand you know

844
00:30:14,710 --> 00:30:11,440
what he's what he's done in his position

845
00:30:17,430 --> 00:30:14,720
in the past and i think you know i i

846
00:30:19,430 --> 00:30:17,440
would guess anyway that lou

847
00:30:21,669 --> 00:30:19,440
kind of enjoys his

848
00:30:24,470 --> 00:30:21,679
role as a

849
00:30:26,389 --> 00:30:24,480
kind of outsider independent

850
00:30:28,070 --> 00:30:26,399
facilitator isn't he that's what he's

851
00:30:29,750 --> 00:30:28,080
doing he's going to meetings he's

852
00:30:31,830 --> 00:30:29,760
getting people talking to each other

853
00:30:33,830 --> 00:30:31,840
he's getting people engaged and also you

854
00:30:35,669 --> 00:30:33,840
know enthused and the people who are in

855
00:30:38,070 --> 00:30:35,679
power to be able to stay things and do

856
00:30:40,070 --> 00:30:38,080
things i think i mean he said before

857
00:30:41,990 --> 00:30:40,080
that he'd you know quite happily turn it

858
00:30:44,389 --> 00:30:42,000
over to somebody else to get into that

859
00:30:46,070 --> 00:30:44,399
position hasn't he um i mean i can't

860
00:30:47,750 --> 00:30:46,080
speak for him obviously but i'm sure

861
00:30:49,430 --> 00:30:47,760
i've heard him say that before and he

862
00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:49,440
mentions again in this about you know

863
00:30:55,029 --> 00:30:51,600
stacking shells at walmart you know

864
00:30:58,070 --> 00:30:56,470
i've got a vivid imagination i can

865
00:30:59,909 --> 00:30:58,080
actually i can actually envision that

866
00:31:00,870 --> 00:30:59,919
but on the other hand you know i can't

867
00:31:02,789 --> 00:31:00,880
as well

868
00:31:04,230 --> 00:31:02,799
you know you just see him in this role

869
00:31:06,710 --> 00:31:04,240
as being this kind of you know the

870
00:31:08,710 --> 00:31:06,720
person who's the driving force in many

871
00:31:11,029 --> 00:31:08,720
ways behind what everybody's doing you

872
00:31:13,029 --> 00:31:11,039
know it would be lost without him

873
00:31:14,710 --> 00:31:13,039
yeah yeah he says he'd be happy doing

874
00:31:16,070 --> 00:31:14,720
that but i can only imagine that he

875
00:31:18,389 --> 00:31:16,080
would be happy

876
00:31:19,389 --> 00:31:18,399
stocking shelves if he was like using

877
00:31:21,830 --> 00:31:19,399
that like

878
00:31:24,470 --> 00:31:21,840
exoskeleton mech suit from like the end

879
00:31:26,310 --> 00:31:24,480
of aliens you know yeah that uh that

880
00:31:28,870 --> 00:31:26,320
security beaver was using or something

881
00:31:30,870 --> 00:31:28,880
like that like maybe making

882
00:31:32,789 --> 00:31:30,880
complex forts out of the products or

883
00:31:33,909 --> 00:31:32,799
something you know well he'd move on to

884
00:31:35,590 --> 00:31:33,919
something else wouldn't he you would

885
00:31:36,789 --> 00:31:35,600
have something but presumably you'd have

886
00:31:39,029 --> 00:31:36,799
something else with a bit between his

887
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:39,039
teeth about the jfk or something else

888
00:31:42,710 --> 00:31:40,559
he's really you know involved and

889
00:31:44,710 --> 00:31:42,720
enthused about so yeah i can't i can't

890
00:31:45,590 --> 00:31:44,720
see him sitting still for very long

891
00:31:47,750 --> 00:31:45,600
yeah

892
00:31:51,750 --> 00:31:47,760
i can't speak for him um somebody

893
00:31:53,750 --> 00:31:51,760
actually mentioned um roswell and how

894
00:31:54,870 --> 00:31:53,760
i guess he was pressed on if he looked

895
00:31:57,350 --> 00:31:54,880
into it

896
00:31:59,669 --> 00:31:57,360
and uh jason here did um he was pressed

897
00:32:01,990 --> 00:31:59,679
on if he looked into it he confirmed yes

898
00:32:03,750 --> 00:32:02,000
and now we get i can only take this on

899
00:32:06,630 --> 00:32:03,760
on jason's word to here because i

900
00:32:08,149 --> 00:32:06,640
haven't heard that but confirmed yes and

901
00:32:10,950 --> 00:32:08,159
definitely not a weather balloon plus

902
00:32:12,870 --> 00:32:10,960
multiple crashes around that area um you

903
00:32:15,430 --> 00:32:12,880
know it's kind of a good time to go we

904
00:32:19,590 --> 00:32:15,440
call this ufos then and now

905
00:32:21,990 --> 00:32:19,600
um may be a good time to go back to then

906
00:32:24,310 --> 00:32:22,000
um roswell's interesting to me because

907
00:32:27,269 --> 00:32:24,320
you know as far as government records

908
00:32:29,590 --> 00:32:27,279
you don't find a thing

909
00:32:31,029 --> 00:32:29,600
on it but you do see different things

910
00:32:33,190 --> 00:32:31,039
that hint at

911
00:32:35,750 --> 00:32:33,200
uh materials and fragments but not so

912
00:32:37,590 --> 00:32:35,760
much really um you know specifically

913
00:32:38,870 --> 00:32:37,600
flying saucer crashes

914
00:32:41,509 --> 00:32:38,880
it's funny isn't it sean because when

915
00:32:44,230 --> 00:32:41,519
you read through the sign and the grudge

916
00:32:46,070 --> 00:32:44,240
reports all the various investigations

917
00:32:48,149 --> 00:32:46,080
there is no mention

918
00:32:49,909 --> 00:32:48,159
of roswell is there

919
00:32:51,509 --> 00:32:49,919
from what i've read anyway and i've

920
00:32:53,669 --> 00:32:51,519
looked at a fair bit now over the over

921
00:32:55,590 --> 00:32:53,679
the last couple of years um and i just

922
00:32:57,269 --> 00:32:55,600
don't see any of it it was one of those

923
00:32:59,509 --> 00:32:57,279
stories that kind of was a flash in the

924
00:33:02,230 --> 00:32:59,519
pan really in 1947 wasn't it because

925
00:33:04,389 --> 00:33:02,240
they had the you know that splash about

926
00:33:06,710 --> 00:33:04,399
you know um the air force or the army

927
00:33:08,789 --> 00:33:06,720
air force capture the disc

928
00:33:10,710 --> 00:33:08,799
and then the story was away in 24 hours

929
00:33:12,870 --> 00:33:10,720
because it was basically shot down as

930
00:33:14,870 --> 00:33:12,880
being a balloon and everybody accepted

931
00:33:17,029 --> 00:33:14,880
it you know everybody everybody was

932
00:33:19,029 --> 00:33:17,039
quite happy to buy the the army air

933
00:33:21,350 --> 00:33:19,039
force's um

934
00:33:23,430 --> 00:33:21,360
their version of events and nobody sort

935
00:33:25,190 --> 00:33:23,440
of went any deeper nobody questioned

936
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:25,200
things that weren't investigators like

937
00:33:29,430 --> 00:33:27,360
there are today to sort of poke around

938
00:33:31,990 --> 00:33:29,440
and all the rest of it um so it just

939
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:32,000
died to death um and every and it just

940
00:33:36,070 --> 00:33:34,080
seems that when people were coming up

941
00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:36,080
with other things afterwards nobody

942
00:33:41,029 --> 00:33:39,120
seemed to remember this story yeah

943
00:33:43,350 --> 00:33:41,039
it's weird isn't it because it doesn't

944
00:33:45,590 --> 00:33:43,360
appear in the literature of the time

945
00:33:46,549 --> 00:33:45,600
unless it's books i haven't read yet but

946
00:33:49,029 --> 00:33:46,559
you know a lot of books that were

947
00:33:50,710 --> 00:33:49,039
written in the 50s and 60s

948
00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:50,720
not a not a thing

949
00:33:55,029 --> 00:33:53,200
it's crazy and that that balloon you

950
00:33:57,990 --> 00:33:55,039
know they it's not a balloon it is a

951
00:34:00,149 --> 00:33:58,000
balloon i don't know i can't say um

952
00:34:02,630 --> 00:34:00,159
i would assume that there's whatever it

953
00:34:04,549 --> 00:34:02,640
happened there is highly secret and

954
00:34:08,230 --> 00:34:04,559
there was some sort of cover up what the

955
00:34:09,990 --> 00:34:08,240
cover-up was of i'm not sure but um at

956
00:34:12,790 --> 00:34:10,000
that time um

957
00:34:15,349 --> 00:34:12,800
like the whole geophysical thing and

958
00:34:17,669 --> 00:34:15,359
um the balloons and all that stuff and

959
00:34:18,790 --> 00:34:17,679
and trying to catch hints of

960
00:34:21,030 --> 00:34:18,800
nuclear

961
00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:21,040
um particles in the air from soviet and

962
00:34:24,869 --> 00:34:23,040
all that stuff was a real deal and all

963
00:34:27,990 --> 00:34:24,879
that was very secretive

964
00:34:30,310 --> 00:34:28,000
um so it was an interesting time but i

965
00:34:31,270 --> 00:34:30,320
mean at that time the whole

966
00:34:32,550 --> 00:34:31,280
um

967
00:34:35,190 --> 00:34:32,560
you know

968
00:34:37,669 --> 00:34:35,200
conquest for for space really started

969
00:34:39,829 --> 00:34:37,679
for for us in a lot of other countries

970
00:34:40,790 --> 00:34:39,839
um so it's you know

971
00:34:42,869 --> 00:34:40,800
not

972
00:34:44,950 --> 00:34:42,879
um coincidence to me

973
00:34:46,389 --> 00:34:44,960
that uh ufos kind of took off around

974
00:34:47,589 --> 00:34:46,399
that time as well

975
00:34:49,669 --> 00:34:47,599
um just

976
00:34:50,950 --> 00:34:49,679
where that coincidence comes from i i

977
00:34:52,149 --> 00:34:50,960
don't really know jay i'll give it to

978
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:52,159
you

979
00:34:56,790 --> 00:34:54,240
yeah i mean one one other question

980
00:34:58,710 --> 00:34:56,800
around that is is

981
00:35:02,069 --> 00:34:58,720
when he says that there are multiple

982
00:35:04,470 --> 00:35:02,079
crashes around around that area around

983
00:35:07,510 --> 00:35:04,480
that time i'm wondering what he's

984
00:35:09,030 --> 00:35:07,520
referring to you know there was i uh off

985
00:35:11,670 --> 00:35:09,040
the top of my head i'm thinking there

986
00:35:13,750 --> 00:35:11,680
was the there was kingman there was

987
00:35:16,069 --> 00:35:13,760
aztec there's trinity

988
00:35:18,950 --> 00:35:16,079
right um you know in terms of the

989
00:35:20,950 --> 00:35:18,960
southwest within about a three four year

990
00:35:21,829 --> 00:35:20,960
period there and i think that there was

991
00:35:27,750 --> 00:35:21,839
even

992
00:35:31,030 --> 00:35:27,760
days of roswell

993
00:35:33,030 --> 00:35:31,040
that um that was

994
00:35:35,030 --> 00:35:33,040
understood to be kind of maybe a fog of

995
00:35:38,310 --> 00:35:35,040
war element where it was probably the

996
00:35:41,430 --> 00:35:38,320
same the same instance as roswell

997
00:35:43,109 --> 00:35:41,440
supposedly another crash involved

998
00:35:45,270 --> 00:35:43,119
connected with the roswell from what

999
00:35:46,790 --> 00:35:45,280
i've read before there might be two

1000
00:35:49,030 --> 00:35:46,800
uh crash sites

1001
00:35:50,390 --> 00:35:49,040
but i'm not entirely sure you know

1002
00:35:52,790 --> 00:35:50,400
because i think one that might have been

1003
00:35:53,829 --> 00:35:52,800
debunked in terms of it's not entirely

1004
00:35:56,069 --> 00:35:53,839
part you know

1005
00:36:00,870 --> 00:35:56,079
what's clear about it the whole thing

1006
00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:02,630
oh sorry go ahead

1007
00:36:06,150 --> 00:36:03,839
i was just going to say the whole

1008
00:36:08,069 --> 00:36:06,160
thing's a complete mess nowadays um if

1009
00:36:09,990 --> 00:36:08,079
you'd asked me this 20 odd years ago

1010
00:36:12,230 --> 00:36:10,000
when i felt 30 years ago rather when i

1011
00:36:14,390 --> 00:36:12,240
first started reading about roswell it

1012
00:36:16,470 --> 00:36:14,400
was it seemed cut and dried in so much

1013
00:36:19,109 --> 00:36:16,480
as not that the you know new people knew

1014
00:36:20,950 --> 00:36:19,119
what it was but just what the story was

1015
00:36:24,069 --> 00:36:20,960
so it was you know something crashing at

1016
00:36:26,069 --> 00:36:24,079
the desert um mac brazil found it he

1017
00:36:28,310 --> 00:36:26,079
brought it into the to the town they

1018
00:36:29,270 --> 00:36:28,320
looked at it the army got a hold of it

1019
00:36:33,349 --> 00:36:29,280
um

1020
00:36:35,430 --> 00:36:33,359
intelligence agent went out to this to

1021
00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:35,440
the site with him they got the stuff it

1022
00:36:40,310 --> 00:36:37,520
was covered up whatever blah blah blah

1023
00:36:42,470 --> 00:36:40,320
but as as the years have gone on more

1024
00:36:43,589 --> 00:36:42,480
witnesses have come forward um and

1025
00:36:45,270 --> 00:36:43,599
you've only got to see the work that

1026
00:36:46,950 --> 00:36:45,280
kevin randle has done and others have

1027
00:36:49,109 --> 00:36:46,960
done on this subject to see all these

1028
00:36:51,270 --> 00:36:49,119
people but some of these these witnesses

1029
00:36:53,109 --> 00:36:51,280
have been hailed as oh yeah integral

1030
00:36:54,630 --> 00:36:53,119
parts of the story and i'm talking about

1031
00:36:56,630 --> 00:36:54,640
frank kaufman and i'm talking about

1032
00:36:58,069 --> 00:36:56,640
glenn dennis here and then when you look

1033
00:36:59,670 --> 00:36:58,079
at their stories

1034
00:37:02,310 --> 00:36:59,680
they're not as

1035
00:37:04,550 --> 00:37:02,320
clear-cut as they once were made up to

1036
00:37:07,589 --> 00:37:04,560
be and even kevin randlem says you know

1037
00:37:09,270 --> 00:37:07,599
he's got doubt about um frank kaufman's

1038
00:37:10,870 --> 00:37:09,280
part of the whole thing and also glenn

1039
00:37:13,030 --> 00:37:10,880
dennis because glenn dennis came up with

1040
00:37:15,430 --> 00:37:13,040
the name of this nurse who apparently

1041
00:37:17,109 --> 00:37:15,440
turned out to be a false name um you

1042
00:37:18,550 --> 00:37:17,119
know so nobody could actually verify

1043
00:37:20,550 --> 00:37:18,560
that this nurse was ever at roswell

1044
00:37:23,190 --> 00:37:20,560
anyway so therefore that story that he

1045
00:37:25,910 --> 00:37:23,200
told about seeing the body or the bodies

1046
00:37:28,069 --> 00:37:25,920
of the aliens that doesn't necessarily

1047
00:37:29,829 --> 00:37:28,079
hold any kind of truth so therefore you

1048
00:37:31,910 --> 00:37:29,839
have to think is everything else he's

1049
00:37:33,750 --> 00:37:31,920
saying also under the same kind of

1050
00:37:35,349 --> 00:37:33,760
suspicion you know because

1051
00:37:37,510 --> 00:37:35,359
if somebody witness is going to say oh

1052
00:37:39,190 --> 00:37:37,520
well that bit's not quite right then you

1053
00:37:42,310 --> 00:37:39,200
have to wonder what else he's saying

1054
00:37:43,829 --> 00:37:42,320
isn't quite right and and my confidence

1055
00:37:45,910 --> 00:37:43,839
in the whole thing

1056
00:37:47,750 --> 00:37:45,920
i mean i'm still under the belief that

1057
00:37:49,750 --> 00:37:47,760
something really odd went on and it

1058
00:37:52,069 --> 00:37:49,760
wasn't a weather balloon or it wasn't a

1059
00:37:54,710 --> 00:37:52,079
project mogul or a thing with these kind

1060
00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:54,720
of bodies and stuff um but

1061
00:37:59,670 --> 00:37:57,119
over the years my kind of belief in this

1062
00:38:01,910 --> 00:37:59,680
has been quite shaken in terms of what

1063
00:38:04,150 --> 00:38:01,920
do i believe nowadays you know how much

1064
00:38:05,910 --> 00:38:04,160
of this story is true and how much of it

1065
00:38:07,829 --> 00:38:05,920
has just been blown up out of all

1066
00:38:11,190 --> 00:38:07,839
proportion from something which might be

1067
00:38:13,190 --> 00:38:11,200
quite mundane or might be quite quite

1068
00:38:16,150 --> 00:38:13,200
kind of extraterrestrial but it's been

1069
00:38:17,670 --> 00:38:16,160
built up even beyond that you know so

1070
00:38:19,589 --> 00:38:17,680
it just and i don't know what to think

1071
00:38:21,270 --> 00:38:19,599
nowadays and i read stuff and i have all

1072
00:38:23,190 --> 00:38:21,280
this knowledge from back then but i read

1073
00:38:24,950 --> 00:38:23,200
stuff that's coming out in more recent

1074
00:38:27,829 --> 00:38:24,960
years and i just think

1075
00:38:29,349 --> 00:38:27,839
oh it's smoking mirrors and

1076
00:38:30,950 --> 00:38:29,359
and it gets the point now where i just

1077
00:38:32,470 --> 00:38:30,960
don't want to look at anything more of

1078
00:38:34,230 --> 00:38:32,480
it because anything that comes out that

1079
00:38:35,990 --> 00:38:34,240
diary that came out was it on the

1080
00:38:37,670 --> 00:38:36,000
history channel a little while back

1081
00:38:39,190 --> 00:38:37,680
there was a series of programs about it

1082
00:38:41,270 --> 00:38:39,200
and i couldn't watch it

1083
00:38:42,390 --> 00:38:41,280
because i thought if i watch this i'm

1084
00:38:44,470 --> 00:38:42,400
just going to find something that i

1085
00:38:46,710 --> 00:38:44,480
either don't believe or it's going to

1086
00:38:48,470 --> 00:38:46,720
confuse things even more for me so i end

1087
00:38:50,390 --> 00:38:48,480
up not watching it yeah

1088
00:38:51,589 --> 00:38:50,400
which is amazing nothing but really

1089
00:38:52,790 --> 00:38:51,599
because i should be interested in this

1090
00:38:54,230 --> 00:38:52,800
kind of thing

1091
00:38:55,829 --> 00:38:54,240
no isn't it interesting though that

1092
00:38:57,829 --> 00:38:55,839
that's i mean i think that that happens

1093
00:39:00,950 --> 00:38:57,839
a lot in this field is that there's

1094
00:39:02,390 --> 00:39:00,960
that you know especially these

1095
00:39:05,030 --> 00:39:02,400
it's kind of

1096
00:39:07,589 --> 00:39:05,040
in some ways it's like the opposite of

1097
00:39:09,750 --> 00:39:07,599
how people say that people fetishize the

1098
00:39:11,750 --> 00:39:09,760
first thing that turned them on you know

1099
00:39:14,150 --> 00:39:11,760
what i mean whatever that is you know

1100
00:39:16,310 --> 00:39:14,160
what i mean and and it's kind of the

1101
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:16,320
opposite situation here where where some

1102
00:39:22,310 --> 00:39:19,440
of these really early whatever got you

1103
00:39:24,790 --> 00:39:22,320
into the field and then you found that

1104
00:39:27,349 --> 00:39:24,800
you were in a castle made of sand with

1105
00:39:29,510 --> 00:39:27,359
something because often the the things

1106
00:39:32,310 --> 00:39:29,520
that bring somebody into the field are

1107
00:39:34,870 --> 00:39:32,320
the the most ludicrous elements or or

1108
00:39:37,109 --> 00:39:34,880
the ones that are the most appealing to

1109
00:39:39,510 --> 00:39:37,119
the public but have the less have the

1110
00:39:41,510 --> 00:39:39,520
least amount of veracity and of course i

1111
00:39:44,069 --> 00:39:41,520
understand the irony of this given that

1112
00:39:47,030 --> 00:39:44,079
you know i'm i'm like a known you know

1113
00:39:47,990 --> 00:39:47,040
non-human entity person right

1114
00:39:50,230 --> 00:39:48,000
that i'm

1115
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:50,240
like that i've had contact that's what

1116
00:39:53,750 --> 00:39:52,079
that's what i appreciate about it

1117
00:39:55,030 --> 00:39:53,760
i know i appreciate yeah yeah it doesn't

1118
00:39:56,710 --> 00:39:55,040
really come up all that much in

1119
00:39:59,270 --> 00:39:56,720
situations like this but yeah there is

1120
00:40:01,670 --> 00:39:59,280
that but you know it's it's the people

1121
00:40:03,750 --> 00:40:01,680
with the david the david wilcox the you

1122
00:40:06,470 --> 00:40:03,760
know the ikes the the people like this

1123
00:40:07,589 --> 00:40:06,480
that um that bring people in and then

1124
00:40:09,430 --> 00:40:07,599
it's

1125
00:40:11,030 --> 00:40:09,440
and then you know four or five years

1126
00:40:13,190 --> 00:40:11,040
later they don't even want to see these

1127
00:40:14,470 --> 00:40:13,200
people's names you know what i mean

1128
00:40:16,950 --> 00:40:14,480
and similar

1129
00:40:19,910 --> 00:40:16,960
that you know and i think

1130
00:40:22,230 --> 00:40:19,920
i one thing that i'd love to get uh

1131
00:40:26,309 --> 00:40:22,240
i'd love to ask you about is you know

1132
00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:26,319
one of the people i know that you are a

1133
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:29,440
a really really real well-read historian

1134
00:40:35,430 --> 00:40:32,160
of the field and um

1135
00:40:37,670 --> 00:40:35,440
one of the people we before we got on

1136
00:40:40,790 --> 00:40:37,680
to the stream we were talking about

1137
00:40:42,790 --> 00:40:40,800
people like kehoe and folks like that

1138
00:40:44,950 --> 00:40:42,800
and coral lorenzen

1139
00:40:47,910 --> 00:40:44,960
and you know i brought a bunch of

1140
00:40:49,349 --> 00:40:47,920
a bunch of stuff over here we uh

1141
00:40:52,309 --> 00:40:49,359
we all three

1142
00:40:53,910 --> 00:40:52,319
studied yeah keel recently yeah right

1143
00:40:55,270 --> 00:40:53,920
and um

1144
00:40:58,309 --> 00:40:55,280
but one of the people that i wanted to

1145
00:41:01,190 --> 00:40:58,319
mention is is leonard stringfield right

1146
00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:01,200
because lynn stringfield from uh

1147
00:41:06,870 --> 00:41:03,280
the great state of ohio from cincinnati

1148
00:41:10,309 --> 00:41:06,880
ohio was a researcher that that was very

1149
00:41:13,510 --> 00:41:10,319
well known for many years and is um

1150
00:41:16,069 --> 00:41:13,520
one of the absolute heroes of a guy that

1151
00:41:18,870 --> 00:41:16,079
i used to do work for richard dolan and

1152
00:41:21,270 --> 00:41:18,880
uh of course in the 70s starting in the

1153
00:41:22,150 --> 00:41:21,280
70s anyway leonard stringfield was one

1154
00:41:24,550 --> 00:41:22,160
of the people that was really

1155
00:41:27,910 --> 00:41:24,560
instrumental in bringing back

1156
00:41:31,589 --> 00:41:27,920
the stories of ufo crash retrievals and

1157
00:41:33,589 --> 00:41:31,599
and he did this this kind of overly

1158
00:41:35,750 --> 00:41:33,599
expensive book

1159
00:41:37,589 --> 00:41:35,760
these days called ufo crash retrievals

1160
00:41:39,990 --> 00:41:37,599
my copy's over there like

1161
00:41:40,790 --> 00:41:40,000
like i have one i've never read a couple

1162
00:41:43,589 --> 00:41:40,800
of this

1163
00:41:45,670 --> 00:41:43,599
see the yeah no

1164
00:41:47,990 --> 00:41:45,680
yes

1165
00:41:50,230 --> 00:41:48,000
where i got irritated with his his work

1166
00:41:52,390 --> 00:41:50,240
is actually then taking some of those

1167
00:41:54,710 --> 00:41:52,400
cases and trying to find them and not

1168
00:41:57,829 --> 00:41:54,720
being able to like in blue book like

1169
00:42:00,309 --> 00:41:57,839
it's not there so it's like it's either

1170
00:42:02,870 --> 00:42:00,319
it didn't happen or there's a separate

1171
00:42:05,030 --> 00:42:02,880
group of the air force that is not blue

1172
00:42:07,349 --> 00:42:05,040
book which is highly likely that dealt

1173
00:42:08,230 --> 00:42:07,359
with this stuff and those files are just

1174
00:42:10,870 --> 00:42:08,240
like

1175
00:42:12,309 --> 00:42:10,880
not touchable you know and there was and

1176
00:42:15,270 --> 00:42:12,319
there was the skinny the word on the

1177
00:42:16,390 --> 00:42:15,280
street back like recently was that that

1178
00:42:19,750 --> 00:42:16,400
guy was like

1179
00:42:22,230 --> 00:42:19,760
thoroughly dis disinfo he got snowballed

1180
00:42:24,470 --> 00:42:22,240
by people around because he was right

1181
00:42:26,069 --> 00:42:24,480
there near wright patterson and so there

1182
00:42:27,589 --> 00:42:26,079
are plenty of people around there to

1183
00:42:29,190 --> 00:42:27,599
give him a bunch of false information

1184
00:42:31,109 --> 00:42:29,200
about things if he was getting too close

1185
00:42:32,630 --> 00:42:31,119
to things and so

1186
00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:32,640
it becomes this really challenging

1187
00:42:36,150 --> 00:42:34,160
situation where

1188
00:42:37,750 --> 00:42:36,160
where you want to go back to some of

1189
00:42:40,069 --> 00:42:37,760
these earlier sources like you would

1190
00:42:41,990 --> 00:42:40,079
with valet or you would with keel or or

1191
00:42:46,230 --> 00:42:42,000
you would with kehoe or things like that

1192
00:42:48,870 --> 00:42:46,240
and unfortunately this guy seemingly um

1193
00:42:50,550 --> 00:42:48,880
was was relatively compromised in in

1194
00:42:52,950 --> 00:42:50,560
some of the stories that he was selling

1195
00:42:54,870 --> 00:42:52,960
but i was i was curious great graham so

1196
00:42:56,630 --> 00:42:54,880
you haven't read any of that stuff um

1197
00:42:58,790 --> 00:42:56,640
they're too expensive for me i'm afraid

1198
00:43:02,150 --> 00:42:58,800
um at the moment unless i unless i sell

1199
00:43:07,430 --> 00:43:02,160
loads of books um yeah so but he had his

1200
00:43:12,550 --> 00:43:09,510
and he was the inspiration for uh keith

1201
00:43:15,190 --> 00:43:12,560
chesler's book um on on the same subject

1202
00:43:18,150 --> 00:43:15,200
uh the one that was written in 2007. he

1203
00:43:19,670 --> 00:43:18,160
had his own uh newsletter in the 1950s

1204
00:43:23,190 --> 00:43:19,680
which the name of it escapes that

1205
00:43:24,230 --> 00:43:23,200
escapes me uh for the second i do quote

1206
00:43:27,190 --> 00:43:24,240
in my

1207
00:43:30,069 --> 00:43:27,200
it's called orbit yeah yeah

1208
00:43:31,829 --> 00:43:30,079
orbit yeah yeah orbit um

1209
00:43:33,430 --> 00:43:31,839
but it it didn't last very long did it i

1210
00:43:35,270 --> 00:43:33,440
thought it lasted about was it three or

1211
00:43:36,550 --> 00:43:35,280
four years or something that's right and

1212
00:43:38,069 --> 00:43:36,560
then yeah

1213
00:43:39,430 --> 00:43:38,079
um yeah because i have i have read the

1214
00:43:41,190 --> 00:43:39,440
issues or

1215
00:43:42,550 --> 00:43:41,200
quite a few of the issues and he's also

1216
00:43:43,990 --> 00:43:42,560
he obviously goes on about how much it

1217
00:43:46,550 --> 00:43:44,000
costs to do it because it was i think it

1218
00:43:48,470 --> 00:43:46,560
was a one-man band so uh but it's it's

1219
00:43:50,309 --> 00:43:48,480
very they're very interesting and it's

1220
00:43:53,190 --> 00:43:50,319
obviously other time and you know

1221
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,200
there's you can say you can read the the

1222
00:43:57,349 --> 00:43:55,280
the newsletters and actually i think you

1223
00:43:58,710 --> 00:43:57,359
can read that collected works i think is

1224
00:44:00,550 --> 00:43:58,720
available if you have an amazon

1225
00:44:03,670 --> 00:44:00,560
subscription you can get it through

1226
00:44:04,790 --> 00:44:03,680
amazon prime um i believe as well um

1227
00:44:06,390 --> 00:44:04,800
they're very interesting but they're

1228
00:44:09,030 --> 00:44:06,400
also the same as you know coral

1229
00:44:12,470 --> 00:44:09,040
lorenzen's um they are the afro stuff

1230
00:44:14,470 --> 00:44:12,480
from i think that started in 1952 so she

1231
00:44:17,030 --> 00:44:14,480
was the first wasn't she um to have a

1232
00:44:18,390 --> 00:44:17,040
kind of monthly newsletter um

1233
00:44:19,990 --> 00:44:18,400
it was it's quite interesting some of

1234
00:44:22,550 --> 00:44:20,000
the stuff's in it that's in there as

1235
00:44:25,109 --> 00:44:22,560
well so yeah i've i've i've read some of

1236
00:44:27,510 --> 00:44:25,119
the lens drill for your stuff beyond

1237
00:44:29,349 --> 00:44:27,520
um those volumes that you mentioned so

1238
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:29,359
i've read some of the creeper stuff and

1239
00:44:33,109 --> 00:44:31,520
yes he's effectively won the greats how

1240
00:44:34,230 --> 00:44:33,119
much these people are compromised yeah

1241
00:44:35,910 --> 00:44:34,240
i'm sure they were i'm sure they were

1242
00:44:38,230 --> 00:44:35,920
fed disinformation along the lines from

1243
00:44:40,790 --> 00:44:38,240
various people not just people with an

1244
00:44:43,270 --> 00:44:40,800
agenda from the air force um you know

1245
00:44:45,190 --> 00:44:43,280
like um like mr doty you know it was

1246
00:44:47,990 --> 00:44:45,200
instructed no doubt to do but also

1247
00:44:49,670 --> 00:44:48,000
people um with different beliefs because

1248
00:44:50,870 --> 00:44:49,680
we say now

1249
00:44:53,589 --> 00:44:50,880
if you're talking about then and now

1250
00:44:55,030 --> 00:44:53,599
we'd see today i mean all i've got to do

1251
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:55,040
is put something up on the internet

1252
00:44:58,790 --> 00:44:56,960
about the foo fighters and i'll get

1253
00:45:00,230 --> 00:44:58,800
somebody saying oh no you're talking

1254
00:45:02,150 --> 00:45:00,240
rubbish graham they're all they're all

1255
00:45:03,270 --> 00:45:02,160
definitely german and here's some fake

1256
00:45:06,230 --> 00:45:03,280
pictures of

1257
00:45:08,870 --> 00:45:06,240
german ufos so you know people who have

1258
00:45:10,550 --> 00:45:08,880
very deep seated beliefs are equally

1259
00:45:12,550 --> 00:45:10,560
able to push the narrative in a

1260
00:45:14,150 --> 00:45:12,560
different direction um you know i'll

1261
00:45:15,990 --> 00:45:14,160
i'll say stuff on the internet and i

1262
00:45:17,990 --> 00:45:16,000
haven't got the time to try and

1263
00:45:20,069 --> 00:45:18,000
constantly refute some of this stuff but

1264
00:45:22,790 --> 00:45:20,079
it pops up all the time about saying

1265
00:45:24,790 --> 00:45:22,800
nasty flying saucers or nuts and faces

1266
00:45:27,510 --> 00:45:24,800
and the antarctic um there's somebody

1267
00:45:29,430 --> 00:45:27,520
just popped up on the chat before saying

1268
00:45:31,990 --> 00:45:29,440
that the roswell was probably of german

1269
00:45:33,589 --> 00:45:32,000
origin i don't believe that now you know

1270
00:45:35,430 --> 00:45:33,599
i don't really have probably at the time

1271
00:45:37,109 --> 00:45:35,440
or maybe even inclination to take with

1272
00:45:38,950 --> 00:45:37,119
the rest of the program here talking

1273
00:45:40,710 --> 00:45:38,960
about that but

1274
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:40,720
you know this stuff's been argued to

1275
00:45:43,430 --> 00:45:42,240
death and there's no proof of that

1276
00:45:47,109 --> 00:45:43,440
whatsoever

1277
00:45:49,670 --> 00:45:47,119
so um you're beyond a a vague similarity

1278
00:45:51,510 --> 00:45:49,680
to the the the thing that kevin arnold

1279
00:45:53,990 --> 00:45:51,520
later said he saw but wasn't what he

1280
00:45:56,630 --> 00:45:54,000
said he saw at the time of his sighting

1281
00:45:59,589 --> 00:45:56,640
so you know these things proper um you

1282
00:46:01,670 --> 00:45:59,599
know promulgate and propagate and yet

1283
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:01,680
they've got no as you say uh today

1284
00:46:06,150 --> 00:46:03,760
they're on on a basis of sand they've

1285
00:46:08,230 --> 00:46:06,160
got no basis in reality whatsoever but

1286
00:46:10,390 --> 00:46:08,240
then these stories you keep going and

1287
00:46:12,069 --> 00:46:10,400
they get thrown at people

1288
00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:12,079
and it just seems to muddy everything

1289
00:46:15,030 --> 00:46:13,280
doesn't it

1290
00:46:17,510 --> 00:46:15,040
yeah and then you know if you read kind

1291
00:46:18,710 --> 00:46:17,520
of the inside baseball documents of of

1292
00:46:19,829 --> 00:46:18,720
blue book

1293
00:46:22,069 --> 00:46:19,839
at the time and they're they're

1294
00:46:24,069 --> 00:46:22,079
different like uh in-house reports they

1295
00:46:26,150 --> 00:46:24,079
put together about you know how they

1296
00:46:28,390 --> 00:46:26,160
want to conduct their business and and

1297
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:28,400
how if there's a case that gets big

1298
00:46:33,510 --> 00:46:30,640
publicity they want to use that to their

1299
00:46:35,990 --> 00:46:33,520
you know advantage and and talk about it

1300
00:46:38,630 --> 00:46:36,000
and then publicly debunk it and show how

1301
00:46:40,870 --> 00:46:38,640
something you know seemingly crazy is

1302
00:46:42,309 --> 00:46:40,880
actually something prosaic and

1303
00:46:43,990 --> 00:46:42,319
you know

1304
00:46:45,510 --> 00:46:44,000
it's like there's there's two flips of

1305
00:46:47,030 --> 00:46:45,520
the coin some people want to go oh

1306
00:46:50,230 --> 00:46:47,040
they're just you know

1307
00:46:52,150 --> 00:46:50,240
um you know throwing me bs and you know

1308
00:46:53,910 --> 00:46:52,160
but what if they're actually just trying

1309
00:46:56,470 --> 00:46:53,920
to help

1310
00:46:58,790 --> 00:46:56,480
you know you never know because you know

1311
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:58,800
i for one have had my sightings and

1312
00:47:04,390 --> 00:47:01,040
there's no way that what i've seen

1313
00:47:05,430 --> 00:47:04,400
um is just like some

1314
00:47:07,510 --> 00:47:05,440
you know

1315
00:47:09,990 --> 00:47:07,520
something

1316
00:47:13,270 --> 00:47:10,000
i don't know what it is right i can't

1317
00:47:14,550 --> 00:47:13,280
say it's it's some sort of alien i can't

1318
00:47:16,710 --> 00:47:14,560
really say

1319
00:47:18,550 --> 00:47:16,720
um that it's a being or it's not a being

1320
00:47:20,630 --> 00:47:18,560
or it's a ship or it's not like all i

1321
00:47:22,630 --> 00:47:20,640
can say is what it did and the weird

1322
00:47:25,270 --> 00:47:22,640
circumstance that surrounded it which is

1323
00:47:27,910 --> 00:47:25,280
weird to me but i cannot say what what

1324
00:47:29,750 --> 00:47:27,920
caused it you know um but a lot of the

1325
00:47:31,990 --> 00:47:29,760
times the stories i read like the more

1326
00:47:34,549 --> 00:47:32,000
popular ones about ufos you know

1327
00:47:36,230 --> 00:47:34,559
throughout uh blue book and and you know

1328
00:47:37,510 --> 00:47:36,240
all that stuff is

1329
00:47:39,829 --> 00:47:37,520
none of it

1330
00:47:41,430 --> 00:47:39,839
um fits fits the

1331
00:47:43,349 --> 00:47:41,440
the bill for what for what i went

1332
00:47:45,030 --> 00:47:43,359
through so it can be kind of frustrating

1333
00:47:46,790 --> 00:47:45,040
sometimes you know so i have to read

1334
00:47:49,349 --> 00:47:46,800
like ballet or something

1335
00:47:51,510 --> 00:47:49,359
to to try to get close to something that

1336
00:47:53,349 --> 00:47:51,520
could screw with your psychology and you

1337
00:47:56,309 --> 00:47:53,359
know you know

1338
00:47:57,750 --> 00:47:56,319
and but you know but it's it's you know

1339
00:48:00,549 --> 00:47:57,760
if this was easy it would have been

1340
00:48:02,710 --> 00:48:00,559
figured out um a long time ago right and

1341
00:48:04,549 --> 00:48:02,720
then then there's an aspect of this

1342
00:48:06,150 --> 00:48:04,559
where it's just quite obvious where

1343
00:48:08,470 --> 00:48:06,160
where the air force and in the

1344
00:48:11,670 --> 00:48:08,480
government dod whoever has really taken

1345
00:48:14,230 --> 00:48:11,680
advantage of this this ufo operation to

1346
00:48:15,910 --> 00:48:14,240
further their own goals with satellites

1347
00:48:17,510 --> 00:48:15,920
and weapon development and all that kind

1348
00:48:18,630 --> 00:48:17,520
of stuff so

1349
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:18,640
yeah

1350
00:48:23,030 --> 00:48:21,440
which makes it even worse because is is

1351
00:48:25,589 --> 00:48:23,040
it serving a dual purpose of

1352
00:48:28,549 --> 00:48:25,599
investigating ufos and

1353
00:48:30,950 --> 00:48:28,559
you know also conducting experiments for

1354
00:48:33,990 --> 00:48:30,960
your ballistic missile satellite

1355
00:48:36,790 --> 00:48:34,000
uh warning long-range warning detectors

1356
00:48:37,829 --> 00:48:36,800
or you know what is it it's hard to tell

1357
00:48:39,349 --> 00:48:37,839
so

1358
00:48:41,510 --> 00:48:39,359
i think one of the things that's key

1359
00:48:42,790 --> 00:48:41,520
about what you're just saying is is how

1360
00:48:44,870 --> 00:48:42,800
much

1361
00:48:46,710 --> 00:48:44,880
i i think that you know the ghost of

1362
00:48:49,190 --> 00:48:46,720
people like keel would would smile down

1363
00:48:53,030 --> 00:48:49,200
upon you for your willingness to not

1364
00:48:54,790 --> 00:48:53,040
categorize and not specify to not go

1365
00:48:57,670 --> 00:48:54,800
over into a

1366
00:48:59,750 --> 00:48:57,680
uh specifying your sighting in such a

1367
00:49:01,990 --> 00:48:59,760
way that it actually confuses the

1368
00:49:03,670 --> 00:49:02,000
situation i mean i think we all remember

1369
00:49:06,309 --> 00:49:03,680
from operation trojan horse that one of

1370
00:49:07,990 --> 00:49:06,319
his big gripes was was the self editing

1371
00:49:09,510 --> 00:49:08,000
which is kind of what graham was talking

1372
00:49:10,710 --> 00:49:09,520
about just a few minutes ago which is

1373
00:49:13,510 --> 00:49:10,720
yeah how

1374
00:49:14,950 --> 00:49:13,520
how witnesses themselves and also the

1375
00:49:17,990 --> 00:49:14,960
researchers that would take these

1376
00:49:19,589 --> 00:49:18,000
accounts would spin they would delete

1377
00:49:23,670 --> 00:49:19,599
things they would you know they would

1378
00:49:25,510 --> 00:49:23,680
try to like how many times were you know

1379
00:49:28,470 --> 00:49:25,520
there were there were situations where

1380
00:49:30,870 --> 00:49:28,480
people were saying okay it was a short

1381
00:49:32,950 --> 00:49:30,880
being you know with a big head and it

1382
00:49:34,790 --> 00:49:32,960
looked kind of chinese or something like

1383
00:49:35,990 --> 00:49:34,800
that and then you drilled down more and

1384
00:49:37,910 --> 00:49:36,000
more

1385
00:49:39,349 --> 00:49:37,920
oriental yeah you used to get that a lot

1386
00:49:40,870 --> 00:49:39,359
in the books in the 70s about they were

1387
00:49:43,430 --> 00:49:40,880
talking about beings that looked

1388
00:49:45,109 --> 00:49:43,440
oriental in appearance

1389
00:49:47,190 --> 00:49:45,119
right and they'd be like huge cranium

1390
00:49:49,109 --> 00:49:47,200
really big guys and they'd be like okay

1391
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:49,119
if it looked like anybody that you know

1392
00:49:53,430 --> 00:49:50,880
who would it be and they'd be like dot

1393
00:49:54,870 --> 00:49:53,440
dot dot oriental or something like that

1394
00:49:57,349 --> 00:49:54,880
and it would be these you know these

1395
00:50:00,470 --> 00:49:57,359
strange and like maybe you know for all

1396
00:50:01,670 --> 00:50:00,480
we know maybe some of these cases it it

1397
00:50:03,430 --> 00:50:01,680
appeared

1398
00:50:05,270 --> 00:50:03,440
for whatever reason as a screen memory

1399
00:50:06,710 --> 00:50:05,280
or whatever to these people in that way

1400
00:50:08,390 --> 00:50:06,720
but you know these these strange

1401
00:50:09,750 --> 00:50:08,400
situations when we look at the airship

1402
00:50:11,430 --> 00:50:09,760
cases and things like that and people

1403
00:50:13,109 --> 00:50:11,440
say oh there was a cow that was being

1404
00:50:15,910 --> 00:50:13,119
brought up and it was being brought up

1405
00:50:18,069 --> 00:50:15,920
with uh ropes you know was that because

1406
00:50:19,750 --> 00:50:18,079
like that's what the phenomenon was

1407
00:50:22,470 --> 00:50:19,760
showing that particular person in that

1408
00:50:25,190 --> 00:50:22,480
situation or was that person

1409
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:25,200
realizing that this story was already

1410
00:50:28,309 --> 00:50:27,359
eight hundred percent crazy sounding

1411
00:50:30,390 --> 00:50:28,319
already

1412
00:50:32,069 --> 00:50:30,400
and that's saying that like it was

1413
00:50:34,069 --> 00:50:32,079
brought up on a beam of light was just

1414
00:50:37,349 --> 00:50:34,079
gonna that was gonna be

1415
00:50:39,190 --> 00:50:37,359
you know the straw that's right

1416
00:50:40,069 --> 00:50:39,200
i suppose some people also describe

1417
00:50:41,589 --> 00:50:40,079
things in the way that they're

1418
00:50:43,750 --> 00:50:41,599
comfortable with or the things they can

1419
00:50:45,990 --> 00:50:43,760
relate to so it can be a third way as

1420
00:50:47,750 --> 00:50:46,000
well so you know hauling something up by

1421
00:50:49,750 --> 00:50:47,760
ropes might be the only way that they

1422
00:50:51,510 --> 00:50:49,760
could envisage that a cow could be

1423
00:50:54,390 --> 00:50:51,520
lifted from the ground by an object in

1424
00:50:56,630 --> 00:50:54,400
mid-air so you get that level of kind of

1425
00:50:58,950 --> 00:50:56,640
description as well i think sometimes

1426
00:51:01,109 --> 00:50:58,960
when i get turned off from

1427
00:51:03,109 --> 00:51:01,119
um you know various people's sightings

1428
00:51:04,870 --> 00:51:03,119
or experiences and all and just people

1429
00:51:07,510 --> 00:51:04,880
reading writing about things as when

1430
00:51:08,950 --> 00:51:07,520
people have a definite explanation

1431
00:51:10,790 --> 00:51:08,960
and i'm i don't want to belittle

1432
00:51:13,030 --> 00:51:10,800
people's experiences here don't get me

1433
00:51:15,030 --> 00:51:13,040
wrong but when people say for definite

1434
00:51:16,630 --> 00:51:15,040
this is what it is whichever from

1435
00:51:17,910 --> 00:51:16,640
whichever direction they're coming from

1436
00:51:19,829 --> 00:51:17,920
whether they're an experiencer or

1437
00:51:21,829 --> 00:51:19,839
whether they're you know a commentator

1438
00:51:24,150 --> 00:51:21,839
or author or whatever when they

1439
00:51:27,349 --> 00:51:24,160
definitely say this is what the answer

1440
00:51:30,069 --> 00:51:27,359
is that's when i switch off because i

1441
00:51:32,390 --> 00:51:30,079
can't see how they know the answer for

1442
00:51:33,270 --> 00:51:32,400
definite when nobody else does

1443
00:51:35,750 --> 00:51:33,280
it's not

1444
00:51:38,230 --> 00:51:35,760
what makes you so special that you have

1445
00:51:39,750 --> 00:51:38,240
been told all the answers and now you're

1446
00:51:41,510 --> 00:51:39,760
writing a book about it or you're

1447
00:51:43,190 --> 00:51:41,520
standing in front of a huge audience at

1448
00:51:44,870 --> 00:51:43,200
a conference somewhere saying i have the

1449
00:51:46,309 --> 00:51:44,880
answers you know they're reptilians or

1450
00:51:47,990 --> 00:51:46,319
they're shape-shifters or they're people

1451
00:51:50,630 --> 00:51:48,000
from the future or you know that they're

1452
00:51:52,790 --> 00:51:50,640
from aldebaran or whatever this is the

1453
00:51:54,870 --> 00:51:52,800
bit that just makes me switch off and

1454
00:51:56,230 --> 00:51:54,880
you know i defy anybody to read through

1455
00:51:58,630 --> 00:51:56,240
what i've written in the past or what

1456
00:52:00,470 --> 00:51:58,640
i've said to say graham said that's what

1457
00:52:01,829 --> 00:52:00,480
they are you know

1458
00:52:03,430 --> 00:52:01,839
i won't

1459
00:52:05,190 --> 00:52:03,440
because i just don't know that's what

1460
00:52:07,190 --> 00:52:05,200
kind of makes everything so complicated

1461
00:52:09,829 --> 00:52:07,200
for the people who actually just try

1462
00:52:12,549 --> 00:52:09,839
their best to report you know the facts

1463
00:52:13,670 --> 00:52:12,559
as we know them to be as documented by

1464
00:52:16,150 --> 00:52:13,680
other people

1465
00:52:17,030 --> 00:52:16,160
um that were paid to do such at least

1466
00:52:19,109 --> 00:52:17,040
you know

1467
00:52:21,349 --> 00:52:19,119
it it all kind of blends in in those

1468
00:52:24,950 --> 00:52:21,359
folks like yourself graham it won't be

1469
00:52:27,990 --> 00:52:24,960
as fantastic as somebody who maybe says

1470
00:52:31,030 --> 00:52:28,000
they know what the deal is and that it's

1471
00:52:33,670 --> 00:52:31,040
something like pretty fantastic like

1472
00:52:35,750 --> 00:52:33,680
you know it's a person from venus who

1473
00:52:38,470 --> 00:52:35,760
spent time in the freaking pentagon dude

1474
00:52:39,750 --> 00:52:38,480
you know and

1475
00:52:41,109 --> 00:52:39,760
yeah you know

1476
00:52:43,109 --> 00:52:41,119
um

1477
00:52:44,150 --> 00:52:43,119
it's like there's

1478
00:52:45,190 --> 00:52:44,160
there's

1479
00:52:48,710 --> 00:52:45,200
just

1480
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:48,720
too much mixing of science fiction in

1481
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:52,319
fact that it makes the field extremely

1482
00:52:57,510 --> 00:52:55,040
difficult to work within because there's

1483
00:52:59,589 --> 00:52:57,520
uh so many different um

1484
00:53:00,870 --> 00:52:59,599
interests and prerogatives going on at

1485
00:53:02,549 --> 00:53:00,880
the same time

1486
00:53:04,150 --> 00:53:02,559
you know you have a history teacher

1487
00:53:07,109 --> 00:53:04,160
working next to

1488
00:53:08,069 --> 00:53:07,119
um you know a science fiction writer

1489
00:53:11,589 --> 00:53:08,079
you know

1490
00:53:15,030 --> 00:53:11,599
um and they both want to hold on to what

1491
00:53:17,109 --> 00:53:15,040
they have because that's what they do um

1492
00:53:18,470 --> 00:53:17,119
you know it's just uh difficult for a

1493
00:53:20,470 --> 00:53:18,480
lot of people to sift through that and

1494
00:53:22,549 --> 00:53:20,480
then like lou said just to bring it back

1495
00:53:25,430 --> 00:53:22,559
on jimmy church a little bit like people

1496
00:53:26,230 --> 00:53:25,440
just desperately want answers you know

1497
00:53:28,309 --> 00:53:26,240
and

1498
00:53:31,190 --> 00:53:28,319
you know in in that kind of vulnerable

1499
00:53:33,109 --> 00:53:31,200
state i feel like um you know it's it's

1500
00:53:35,430 --> 00:53:33,119
really easy to take advantage of people

1501
00:53:36,870 --> 00:53:35,440
like that um

1502
00:53:38,309 --> 00:53:36,880
that's when they're most susceptible

1503
00:53:40,549 --> 00:53:38,319
aren't they to a line that sounds

1504
00:53:42,710 --> 00:53:40,559
plausible yeah i mean

1505
00:53:45,270 --> 00:53:42,720
why did all the people sort of fall for

1506
00:53:46,069 --> 00:53:45,280
and dolly's kind of you know sort of

1507
00:53:48,870 --> 00:53:46,079
like

1508
00:53:51,910 --> 00:53:48,880
spiel um or or the net object or you

1509
00:53:54,150 --> 00:53:51,920
know stephen griez kind of um his you

1510
00:53:55,990 --> 00:53:54,160
know his advertising about oh you'll see

1511
00:53:58,150 --> 00:53:56,000
things well you might do but they might

1512
00:54:01,190 --> 00:53:58,160
not necessarily be alien so

1513
00:54:03,030 --> 00:54:01,200
it just seems to be you know

1514
00:54:04,150 --> 00:54:03,040
people yes they want answers but at what

1515
00:54:05,829 --> 00:54:04,160
price

1516
00:54:07,349 --> 00:54:05,839
do they want the answers

1517
00:54:09,109 --> 00:54:07,359
um and they're going to get it from

1518
00:54:11,270 --> 00:54:09,119
somebody who's not entirely trustworthy

1519
00:54:13,030 --> 00:54:11,280
or reliable or are these answers the

1520
00:54:15,349 --> 00:54:13,040
true ones you know just because somebody

1521
00:54:16,790 --> 00:54:15,359
says they are um and has a you know

1522
00:54:18,950 --> 00:54:16,800
initials behind the name or they've

1523
00:54:20,630 --> 00:54:18,960
written a few books um you know or

1524
00:54:22,549 --> 00:54:20,640
they're or they're well or they're well

1525
00:54:23,990 --> 00:54:22,559
kind of like respected on the circuit

1526
00:54:25,270 --> 00:54:24,000
doesn't say they have the answers

1527
00:54:26,630 --> 00:54:25,280
unfortunately

1528
00:54:28,069 --> 00:54:26,640
one word

1529
00:54:29,829 --> 00:54:28,079
and i only just want to say this before

1530
00:54:31,430 --> 00:54:29,839
i forget because i think at least this

1531
00:54:34,230 --> 00:54:31,440
is an important thing for me and i

1532
00:54:35,589 --> 00:54:34,240
relate it to uh sports like uh my green

1533
00:54:36,870 --> 00:54:35,599
bay packers their football team they

1534
00:54:38,789 --> 00:54:36,880
always get to the playoffs and they

1535
00:54:41,349 --> 00:54:38,799
always freaking blow it right and the

1536
00:54:43,670 --> 00:54:41,359
thing to me is like in order to win the

1537
00:54:46,390 --> 00:54:43,680
championship or to go all the way you

1538
00:54:49,430 --> 00:54:46,400
have to be okay with losing you have to

1539
00:54:52,390 --> 00:54:49,440
be comfortable that you you might very

1540
00:54:54,950 --> 00:54:52,400
well lose and it's okay it's fine um and

1541
00:54:57,750 --> 00:54:54,960
it that reminds me of this like if you

1542
00:55:00,390 --> 00:54:57,760
go into ufology if you go into research

1543
00:55:03,829 --> 00:55:00,400
you have to be okay knowing that you may

1544
00:55:05,349 --> 00:55:03,839
not ever find the answer you know oh

1545
00:55:07,829 --> 00:55:05,359
well not only that but you have to be

1546
00:55:09,190 --> 00:55:07,839
okay with if there's people joke about

1547
00:55:10,710 --> 00:55:09,200
you know if you've been in the field for

1548
00:55:12,710 --> 00:55:10,720
more than two years

1549
00:55:14,069 --> 00:55:12,720
you've you've held a wrong belief at

1550
00:55:16,230 --> 00:55:14,079
some point you know what i mean you've

1551
00:55:18,069 --> 00:55:16,240
been wrong about something and i found

1552
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:18,079
that to be completely true you know what

1553
00:55:21,270 --> 00:55:19,440
i mean you read somebody's account

1554
00:55:23,270 --> 00:55:21,280
you're like that sounds legit and then

1555
00:55:25,589 --> 00:55:23,280
two years later you know you're off on

1556
00:55:27,589 --> 00:55:25,599
some you're off on another tangent you

1557
00:55:28,870 --> 00:55:27,599
know one of the things i i completely

1558
00:55:30,630 --> 00:55:28,880
agree with both of you and i think that

1559
00:55:32,950 --> 00:55:30,640
one of the things there is that

1560
00:55:35,349 --> 00:55:32,960
you know as we see along the case of

1561
00:55:37,829 --> 00:55:35,359
that graham brought up just a bit ago

1562
00:55:39,190 --> 00:55:37,839
and you know the people often have this

1563
00:55:41,109 --> 00:55:39,200
situation where

1564
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:41,119
um we were joking about i was joking

1565
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:42,720
about it with stuart davis the other day

1566
00:55:46,630 --> 00:55:44,559
a little bit in kind of like a black

1567
00:55:49,510 --> 00:55:46,640
humor kind of way that

1568
00:55:52,069 --> 00:55:49,520
that it's really difficult to keep all

1569
00:55:53,990 --> 00:55:52,079
of these options in play without landing

1570
00:55:56,069 --> 00:55:54,000
on something it's a it's an enormous

1571
00:55:58,390 --> 00:55:56,079
mental exercise that actually takes a

1572
00:55:59,750 --> 00:55:58,400
lot of energy right it's i think it's

1573
00:56:02,309 --> 00:55:59,760
part of the reason

1574
00:56:04,549 --> 00:56:02,319
other than the internal toxicity among

1575
00:56:07,030 --> 00:56:04,559
people you know within the field but

1576
00:56:09,510 --> 00:56:07,040
outside of that you know keeping all

1577
00:56:11,349 --> 00:56:09,520
these options in play is mentally taxing

1578
00:56:13,510 --> 00:56:11,359
and it's energetically taxing and people

1579
00:56:15,190 --> 00:56:13,520
say like i have to go away i'll i will

1580
00:56:16,630 --> 00:56:15,200
may never be back and then they'll come

1581
00:56:19,349 --> 00:56:16,640
back two months later or whatever you

1582
00:56:20,630 --> 00:56:19,359
know things like this and and i i was

1583
00:56:21,990 --> 00:56:20,640
joking with them the other day and i was

1584
00:56:24,950 --> 00:56:22,000
like you know it's kind of like when i

1585
00:56:27,670 --> 00:56:24,960
go to ikea right and i'm walking around

1586
00:56:30,630 --> 00:56:27,680
and i'm like why am i always so

1587
00:56:32,309 --> 00:56:30,640
freaking tired when i leave ikea and i

1588
00:56:34,470 --> 00:56:32,319
eventually recognized what it was it

1589
00:56:35,910 --> 00:56:34,480
wasn't that there's no windows anywhere

1590
00:56:38,710 --> 00:56:35,920
you know or any clocks it's like a

1591
00:56:40,950 --> 00:56:38,720
casino you know what i recognize is that

1592
00:56:43,670 --> 00:56:40,960
like i'm looking at everything and i'm

1593
00:56:45,349 --> 00:56:43,680
mentally imagining it in my space you

1594
00:56:47,270 --> 00:56:45,359
know what i mean and it's like is that

1595
00:56:49,829 --> 00:56:47,280
couch fit you know what i mean does that

1596
00:56:51,829 --> 00:56:49,839
does that chair is the color right you

1597
00:56:53,990 --> 00:56:51,839
know what i mean like all this stuff and

1598
00:56:56,470 --> 00:56:54,000
all of that mental imagining and trying

1599
00:56:59,510 --> 00:56:56,480
to keep options open though for like two

1600
00:57:01,990 --> 00:56:59,520
straight hours with my partner it's like

1601
00:57:03,589 --> 00:57:02,000
it that yeah that that is like torture

1602
00:57:04,789 --> 00:57:03,599
you know what i mean right and so we

1603
00:57:06,950 --> 00:57:04,799
were joking about it because it's like

1604
00:57:09,190 --> 00:57:06,960
no wonder in our scene that people

1605
00:57:10,950 --> 00:57:09,200
constantly are like 20 26 that's when

1606
00:57:12,549 --> 00:57:10,960
the world's going to end because like

1607
00:57:15,910 --> 00:57:12,559
they'd actually

1608
00:57:18,549 --> 00:57:15,920
restful

1609
00:57:20,789 --> 00:57:18,559
and it's actually easier for them to

1610
00:57:22,470 --> 00:57:20,799
think that the world's going to end than

1611
00:57:24,470 --> 00:57:22,480
to keep all these options in play

1612
00:57:26,630 --> 00:57:24,480
consistently you know what i mean you

1613
00:57:28,069 --> 00:57:26,640
mentioned joe

1614
00:57:30,390 --> 00:57:28,079
you mentioned jay before about like you

1615
00:57:31,829 --> 00:57:30,400
know um sort of being wrong um you know

1616
00:57:33,510 --> 00:57:31,839
in the subject and having these wrong

1617
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:33,520
beliefs and that's true but the people

1618
00:57:37,589 --> 00:57:35,040
who weld themselves to a kind of

1619
00:57:39,589 --> 00:57:37,599
explanation this is the truth

1620
00:57:41,990 --> 00:57:39,599
when the data changes and the

1621
00:57:44,069 --> 00:57:42,000
information changes so that truth is no

1622
00:57:45,510 --> 00:57:44,079
longer true then you see them jumping

1623
00:57:47,670 --> 00:57:45,520
through all sorts of hoops and

1624
00:57:50,150 --> 00:57:47,680
everything to try and justify

1625
00:57:52,069 --> 00:57:50,160
this new reality to become this new

1626
00:57:54,150 --> 00:57:52,079
truth and that's when it gets even more

1627
00:57:56,069 --> 00:57:54,160
complicated and and that's when i just

1628
00:57:58,549 --> 00:57:56,079
shake my head you know because i think

1629
00:58:00,470 --> 00:57:58,559
look you're digging yourself in you stop

1630
00:58:01,670 --> 00:58:00,480
it you know you're not getting anywhere

1631
00:58:04,789 --> 00:58:01,680
and you're just making yourself look

1632
00:58:06,870 --> 00:58:04,799
ridiculous by doing it so it's easier

1633
00:58:08,630 --> 00:58:06,880
just to say look i hold my hands up i

1634
00:58:10,230 --> 00:58:08,640
don't know what's going on and here's

1635
00:58:11,270 --> 00:58:10,240
another things i want to to sort of

1636
00:58:13,030 --> 00:58:11,280
think about

1637
00:58:14,710 --> 00:58:13,040
what if i mean a lot of people say oh

1638
00:58:15,990 --> 00:58:14,720
yes the american government know

1639
00:58:17,270 --> 00:58:16,000
everything that's going on you know

1640
00:58:18,789 --> 00:58:17,280
they've got the answers all the blah

1641
00:58:21,109 --> 00:58:18,799
blah blah but what actually if they

1642
00:58:22,710 --> 00:58:21,119
don't know they might have information

1643
00:58:24,710 --> 00:58:22,720
that information doesn't necessarily

1644
00:58:27,190 --> 00:58:24,720
need to knowledge and therefore they've

1645
00:58:28,630 --> 00:58:27,200
just got a lot of you know sort of data

1646
00:58:30,630 --> 00:58:28,640
but they're still trying to figure out

1647
00:58:32,309 --> 00:58:30,640
what's behind all of it and therefore

1648
00:58:34,710 --> 00:58:32,319
where does that leave everybody there's

1649
00:58:36,789 --> 00:58:34,720
no truth there's just knowledge that's

1650
00:58:37,990 --> 00:58:36,799
just information rather so that could

1651
00:58:40,230 --> 00:58:38,000
lead people to

1652
00:58:42,549 --> 00:58:40,240
to really flip because they've gone

1653
00:58:44,309 --> 00:58:42,559
through this huge semi-audio journey to

1654
00:58:45,349 --> 00:58:44,319
get to the point where well yes we know

1655
00:58:47,349 --> 00:58:45,359
there's something there but we still

1656
00:58:50,230 --> 00:58:47,359
don't know what it is yeah it could be

1657
00:58:53,270 --> 00:58:50,240
as simple as that yeah i i tweeted this

1658
00:58:54,789 --> 00:58:53,280
uh yesterday in response to um somebody

1659
00:58:56,710 --> 00:58:54,799
actually in

1660
00:58:59,270 --> 00:58:56,720
in the chat there i tweeted like i don't

1661
00:59:01,430 --> 00:58:59,280
think i'll ever find a smoking gun so to

1662
00:59:02,309 --> 00:59:01,440
speak but it but i wind up learning a

1663
00:59:04,950 --> 00:59:02,319
ton

1664
00:59:06,870 --> 00:59:04,960
you know and not just about like the ufo

1665
00:59:07,670 --> 00:59:06,880
investigations i wind up learning about

1666
00:59:10,710 --> 00:59:07,680
like

1667
00:59:12,309 --> 00:59:10,720
you know geomagnetism and you know how

1668
00:59:14,390 --> 00:59:12,319
these satellites work and how you

1669
00:59:16,069 --> 00:59:14,400
conduct aerial reconnaissance and not

1670
00:59:18,390 --> 00:59:16,079
because i'm up to no good it's just

1671
00:59:20,789 --> 00:59:18,400
genuinely interesting to me

1672
00:59:21,750 --> 00:59:20,799
you know it just is like i like learning

1673
00:59:24,789 --> 00:59:21,760
about it

1674
00:59:26,230 --> 00:59:24,799
um and you know meteors and and all that

1675
00:59:28,309 --> 00:59:26,240
kind of stuff and

1676
00:59:29,829 --> 00:59:28,319
um you know you just wind up taking in a

1677
00:59:31,510 --> 00:59:29,839
lot of knowledge about your your

1678
00:59:33,430 --> 00:59:31,520
government your military that the

1679
00:59:35,430 --> 00:59:33,440
different branches and stuff and and i

1680
00:59:36,549 --> 00:59:35,440
like soaking all that stuff up and in

1681
00:59:38,470 --> 00:59:36,559
the meantime

1682
00:59:40,789 --> 00:59:38,480
you know finding how all those

1683
00:59:43,109 --> 00:59:40,799
operations work so maybe if there is an

1684
00:59:45,750 --> 00:59:43,119
answer somewhere you know it you know

1685
00:59:47,670 --> 00:59:45,760
where to look i guess but

1686
00:59:48,950 --> 00:59:47,680
do you think that people are you know

1687
00:59:50,230 --> 00:59:48,960
a question for you do you think that

1688
00:59:53,030 --> 00:59:50,240
people are going to stick with this

1689
00:59:54,950 --> 00:59:53,040
subject if there's no kind of hard and

1690
00:59:55,910 --> 00:59:54,960
fast answers in the next few years

1691
00:59:58,390 --> 00:59:55,920
because i think you know people have

1692
01:00:00,470 --> 00:59:58,400
come into the hobby since 2017 are after

1693
01:00:02,390 --> 01:00:00,480
a kind of quick resolution and they're

1694
01:00:03,990 --> 01:00:02,400
always you know trying to like think oh

1695
01:00:06,069 --> 01:00:04,000
the next video is going to be the

1696
01:00:08,150 --> 01:00:06,079
smoking gun you know if

1697
01:00:09,750 --> 01:00:08,160
because the history of it suggests that

1698
01:00:11,510 --> 01:00:09,760
that's not going to come along anytime

1699
01:00:13,510 --> 01:00:11,520
you know really soon do you think people

1700
01:00:15,670 --> 01:00:13,520
are going to stay with us or we're just

1701
01:00:17,829 --> 01:00:15,680
going to be like a small kind of you

1702
01:00:19,510 --> 01:00:17,839
know call let's stick with it

1703
01:00:21,750 --> 01:00:19,520
i think that that's a great question i

1704
01:00:23,670 --> 01:00:21,760
think some people will stick with it i i

1705
01:00:26,630 --> 01:00:23,680
think that some people

1706
01:00:28,470 --> 01:00:26,640
just have the mindset where they

1707
01:00:30,549 --> 01:00:28,480
like us probably

1708
01:00:32,390 --> 01:00:30,559
are bent on

1709
01:00:34,710 --> 01:00:32,400
these universal mysteries

1710
01:00:36,470 --> 01:00:34,720
and they're just drawn to

1711
01:00:37,750 --> 01:00:36,480
the big questions and they're going to

1712
01:00:40,870 --> 01:00:37,760
be consistently

1713
01:00:43,190 --> 01:00:40,880
and and this is a wonderful conduit a

1714
01:00:45,510 --> 01:00:43,200
wonderful gateway to what our you know

1715
01:00:46,710 --> 01:00:45,520
what is the fabric of reality where did

1716
01:00:48,549 --> 01:00:46,720
we come from

1717
01:00:49,349 --> 01:00:48,559
like how do we stay

1718
01:00:51,670 --> 01:00:49,359
so

1719
01:00:53,670 --> 01:00:51,680
how how do we stay on earth you know i

1720
01:00:55,750 --> 01:00:53,680
mean when you were talking earlier about

1721
01:00:57,589 --> 01:00:55,760
about people knowing things and not

1722
01:00:59,589 --> 01:00:57,599
knowing things i was i was

1723
01:01:01,910 --> 01:00:59,599
i was reminded of i was listening to

1724
01:01:03,510 --> 01:01:01,920
this physicist the other day on lex

1725
01:01:05,910 --> 01:01:03,520
friedman podcast right and he was

1726
01:01:07,670 --> 01:01:05,920
talking about you know we don't even if

1727
01:01:09,190 --> 01:01:07,680
you actually talk to physicists if you

1728
01:01:10,950 --> 01:01:09,200
actually talk to these people you'll

1729
01:01:13,910 --> 01:01:10,960
understand how freaking mysterious so

1730
01:01:15,670 --> 01:01:13,920
much of this is like why is gravity so

1731
01:01:17,990 --> 01:01:15,680
weak they haven't really figured that

1732
01:01:20,789 --> 01:01:18,000
out yet they're like why is gravity so

1733
01:01:23,349 --> 01:01:20,799
weak that we can actually off on

1734
01:01:25,589 --> 01:01:23,359
like on an orb this big that we can

1735
01:01:27,750 --> 01:01:25,599
actually pick ourselves up off of our

1736
01:01:30,069 --> 01:01:27,760
chairs after this conversation takes

1737
01:01:31,990 --> 01:01:30,079
place like like they don't even quite

1738
01:01:33,829 --> 01:01:32,000
have that worked out yet they think that

1739
01:01:36,150 --> 01:01:33,839
it should be stronger than it is

1740
01:01:37,910 --> 01:01:36,160
generally speaking or a lot of people do

1741
01:01:39,829 --> 01:01:37,920
and then and so it's like if that's you

1742
01:01:42,309 --> 01:01:39,839
know if we are still stuck on some of

1743
01:01:43,990 --> 01:01:42,319
that stuff then you know then

1744
01:01:46,309 --> 01:01:44,000
you know i think that it's important for

1745
01:01:47,670 --> 01:01:46,319
people within the field to recognize

1746
01:01:51,589 --> 01:01:47,680
just how

1747
01:01:54,230 --> 01:01:51,599
of traditional mainstream science and

1748
01:01:55,750 --> 01:01:54,240
also how little we know because it might

1749
01:01:57,510 --> 01:01:55,760
help a great point though

1750
01:01:59,589 --> 01:01:57,520
yeah i mean like one thing that i just

1751
01:02:02,230 --> 01:01:59,599
learned recently not to break you off

1752
01:02:04,950 --> 01:02:02,240
but um but i'm breaking you off is it's

1753
01:02:07,270 --> 01:02:04,960
okay you know we're just beginning we're

1754
01:02:09,029 --> 01:02:07,280
just beginning to try to learn about you

1755
01:02:12,069 --> 01:02:09,039
know other kind of life forms that could

1756
01:02:13,990 --> 01:02:12,079
exist that that don't you know have to

1757
01:02:15,910 --> 01:02:14,000
uh in order to be in existence have to

1758
01:02:17,270 --> 01:02:15,920
have a sense of gravity around

1759
01:02:19,910 --> 01:02:17,280
you know yeah

1760
01:02:23,670 --> 01:02:19,920
we've been studying that one way of life

1761
01:02:25,829 --> 01:02:23,680
trans you know transpiring that way

1762
01:02:26,870 --> 01:02:25,839
you know almost you know this entire

1763
01:02:29,990 --> 01:02:26,880
time

1764
01:02:32,630 --> 01:02:30,000
so and what if an alien so to speak uh

1765
01:02:36,470 --> 01:02:32,640
isn't like that like it might take a

1766
01:02:38,789 --> 01:02:36,480
while to find that figured that out yeah

1767
01:02:41,190 --> 01:02:38,799
um but i i think i think that there'll

1768
01:02:43,430 --> 01:02:41,200
be some more from i mean from what we

1769
01:02:45,270 --> 01:02:43,440
hear i mean we probably all three here

1770
01:02:46,710 --> 01:02:45,280
hear the scuttlebutt about things that

1771
01:02:48,870 --> 01:02:46,720
are kind of coming down the line and

1772
01:02:52,069 --> 01:02:48,880
things like that and of course in a

1773
01:02:53,670 --> 01:02:52,079
couple months there's there's a um

1774
01:02:56,309 --> 01:02:53,680
there's a group that

1775
01:02:58,789 --> 01:02:56,319
is known for going out um

1776
01:03:00,230 --> 01:02:58,799
going out on onto the ocean and and

1777
01:03:03,910 --> 01:03:00,240
trying to find

1778
01:03:06,390 --> 01:03:03,920
um some decent uh radar returns on

1779
01:03:07,910 --> 01:03:06,400
situations that feels very confident

1780
01:03:10,150 --> 01:03:07,920
about some of the data that they've been

1781
01:03:11,990 --> 01:03:10,160
getting back you know but there's always

1782
01:03:14,950 --> 01:03:12,000
going to be bigger questions because as

1783
01:03:17,990 --> 01:03:14,960
soon as we get great radar returns from

1784
01:03:21,029 --> 01:03:18,000
a civilian organization of say plasma

1785
01:03:22,710 --> 01:03:21,039
orbs near catalina island just saying or

1786
01:03:24,630 --> 01:03:22,720
you know something like that

1787
01:03:27,270 --> 01:03:24,640
is that still going to answer the

1788
01:03:29,270 --> 01:03:27,280
question of skinwalker ranch or is it

1789
01:03:31,349 --> 01:03:29,280
still going to answer you know the

1790
01:03:34,549 --> 01:03:31,359
questions of strange

1791
01:03:36,150 --> 01:03:34,559
humanoids under the purim pyrenees or

1792
01:03:39,109 --> 01:03:36,160
you know like um

1793
01:03:41,029 --> 01:03:39,119
like what what were what is uh valley

1794
01:03:42,950 --> 01:03:41,039
talking about and referencing you know

1795
01:03:44,470 --> 01:03:42,960
the fairy foes and the fairy faith and

1796
01:03:46,069 --> 01:03:44,480
things like that that can passport to

1797
01:03:48,870 --> 01:03:46,079
begonia you know there's always going to

1798
01:03:50,710 --> 01:03:48,880
be these bigger questions um or at least

1799
01:03:53,270 --> 01:03:50,720
for the foreseeable future there will be

1800
01:03:55,829 --> 01:03:53,280
right you know maybe maybe in a couple

1801
01:03:57,829 --> 01:03:55,839
years they'll be like okay you got us

1802
01:04:00,870 --> 01:03:57,839
we're behind everything you know but i

1803
01:04:02,309 --> 01:04:00,880
doubt that i doubt that happening right

1804
01:04:04,069 --> 01:04:02,319
i don't see that happening i think the

1805
01:04:06,390 --> 01:04:04,079
lesson for everybody is look just stick

1806
01:04:07,670 --> 01:04:06,400
with it you know there's no easy answers

1807
01:04:09,270 --> 01:04:07,680
to this you're not going to get

1808
01:04:11,029 --> 01:04:09,280
something necessary just

1809
01:04:12,470 --> 01:04:11,039
hand it to you on a plate which has

1810
01:04:14,390 --> 01:04:12,480
everything that you ever want to know

1811
01:04:16,230 --> 01:04:14,400
about what's happening here you're right

1812
01:04:18,630 --> 01:04:16,240
that you know something might come along

1813
01:04:20,150 --> 01:04:18,640
and it might look like the truth of the

1814
01:04:21,510 --> 01:04:20,160
commerce but it'll probably end up

1815
01:04:23,589 --> 01:04:21,520
throwing up more questions than it

1816
01:04:25,750 --> 01:04:23,599
actually answers um and therefore will

1817
01:04:27,430 --> 01:04:25,760
be stuck again going through you know

1818
01:04:29,430 --> 01:04:27,440
trying to get through all that before we

1819
01:04:31,589 --> 01:04:29,440
can move on to then work out what the

1820
01:04:33,750 --> 01:04:31,599
next part of the puzzle is so i think

1821
01:04:35,829 --> 01:04:33,760
we're going to be on this the way after

1822
01:04:38,230 --> 01:04:35,839
my lifetime you know it's got has come

1823
01:04:40,390 --> 01:04:38,240
and gone uh and possibly your two as

1824
01:04:42,069 --> 01:04:40,400
well you know so i i don't think it's

1825
01:04:43,190 --> 01:04:42,079
something that might even happen in this

1826
01:04:44,950 --> 01:04:43,200
generation i think it could be

1827
01:04:46,390 --> 01:04:44,960
generations to come but that shouldn't

1828
01:04:48,230 --> 01:04:46,400
stop people now

1829
01:04:49,750 --> 01:04:48,240
still getting engaged and still pushing

1830
01:04:51,829 --> 01:04:49,760
that ball that you know that they are

1831
01:04:54,150 --> 01:04:51,839
getting it was closer inching us closer

1832
01:04:55,910 --> 01:04:54,160
to that reality because otherwise we're

1833
01:04:57,270 --> 01:04:55,920
leaving it for the next generation and

1834
01:04:59,589 --> 01:04:57,280
they might not have the same kind of

1835
01:05:01,029 --> 01:04:59,599
like desire or or ability to be able to

1836
01:05:04,309 --> 01:05:01,039
do that

1837
01:05:06,390 --> 01:05:04,319
um yeah i just wanted to say uh jade to

1838
01:05:09,109 --> 01:05:06,400
your point like uh if we do get a

1839
01:05:11,270 --> 01:05:09,119
perfect video that gives extreme detail

1840
01:05:13,829 --> 01:05:11,280
of some sort of being in it even in its

1841
01:05:15,430 --> 01:05:13,839
23 minutes long or whatever that still

1842
01:05:17,270 --> 01:05:15,440
doesn't answer where the hell it came

1843
01:05:19,109 --> 01:05:17,280
from who built it and what's it doing

1844
01:05:21,829 --> 01:05:19,119
here and what what does it have to do

1845
01:05:24,069 --> 01:05:21,839
with me you know if anything

1846
01:05:26,309 --> 01:05:24,079
exactly or even or even deeper questions

1847
01:05:28,470 --> 01:05:26,319
like what's their day-to-day life like

1848
01:05:30,390 --> 01:05:28,480
you know like like what do they know

1849
01:05:31,829 --> 01:05:30,400
what do they know they wear watches

1850
01:05:33,589 --> 01:05:31,839
planets that go the other way you know

1851
01:05:36,390 --> 01:05:33,599
what i mean there's there's so much that

1852
01:05:39,349 --> 01:05:36,400
gets that gets to a further sense of of

1853
01:05:41,990 --> 01:05:39,359
of history and and development in the

1854
01:05:44,230 --> 01:05:42,000
future and i think one of the cool parts

1855
01:05:45,990 --> 01:05:44,240
i totally i love what graham was saying

1856
01:05:48,309 --> 01:05:46,000
just then and you know i i think that

1857
01:05:50,549 --> 01:05:48,319
that's the thing is that

1858
01:05:51,829 --> 01:05:50,559
if you're going to be interested in this

1859
01:05:53,910 --> 01:05:51,839
field for a while and if you're going to

1860
01:05:55,990 --> 01:05:53,920
pursue this this kind of research you're

1861
01:05:58,470 --> 01:05:56,000
going to think about these big ideas you

1862
01:06:00,470 --> 01:05:58,480
have to get to to get to a place

1863
01:06:02,230 --> 01:06:00,480
eventually and i think that i'm at this

1864
01:06:04,150 --> 01:06:02,240
place and sounds like graham is too and

1865
01:06:06,710 --> 01:06:04,160
i think sean is as well where you

1866
01:06:08,549 --> 01:06:06,720
actually get excited about the idea of

1867
01:06:10,789 --> 01:06:08,559
these developments and these discoveries

1868
01:06:12,870 --> 01:06:10,799
happening even after you're gone you

1869
01:06:15,109 --> 01:06:12,880
know what i mean it's good to think you

1870
01:06:17,029 --> 01:06:15,119
know it's a healthy thing especially

1871
01:06:18,950 --> 01:06:17,039
considering how dystopian the world can

1872
01:06:20,870 --> 01:06:18,960
feel these days we're just like oh my

1873
01:06:22,470 --> 01:06:20,880
gosh you know are things wrapping up you

1874
01:06:24,710 --> 01:06:22,480
know what i mean like

1875
01:06:27,829 --> 01:06:24,720
and then and then you think you know

1876
01:06:30,309 --> 01:06:27,839
well gosh maybe there will be some great

1877
01:06:31,910 --> 01:06:30,319
big mysteries for for our grandkids to

1878
01:06:34,390 --> 01:06:31,920
uncover that we don't even know about at

1879
01:06:35,829 --> 01:06:34,400
all and like and the part where that

1880
01:06:37,910 --> 01:06:35,839
actually gives you chills or makes you

1881
01:06:39,910 --> 01:06:37,920
think like that

1882
01:06:41,349 --> 01:06:39,920
in a more optimistic framework i think

1883
01:06:43,910 --> 01:06:41,359
that's when

1884
01:06:47,670 --> 01:06:43,920
the kind of like the pathway opens up

1885
01:06:50,309 --> 01:06:47,680
for some serious uh actual metaphysical

1886
01:06:51,190 --> 01:06:50,319
and uh paranormal inquiry you know what

1887
01:06:52,870 --> 01:06:51,200
i mean

1888
01:06:54,870 --> 01:06:52,880
and the part where that stops being

1889
01:06:56,309 --> 01:06:54,880
paranormal and it just becomes like you

1890
01:06:58,309 --> 01:06:56,319
know

1891
01:06:59,109 --> 01:06:58,319
yeah yeah the actual fabric there you

1892
01:07:01,589 --> 01:06:59,119
know

1893
01:07:03,190 --> 01:07:01,599
so well i think we could probably that

1894
01:07:05,750 --> 01:07:03,200
was a great conversation i really

1895
01:07:07,430 --> 01:07:05,760
enjoyed um that talk with you i think

1896
01:07:09,349 --> 01:07:07,440
that's a great place to leave it unless

1897
01:07:10,230 --> 01:07:09,359
um graham you have anything you want to

1898
01:07:12,150 --> 01:07:10,240
add

1899
01:07:15,109 --> 01:07:12,160
no i think anything i would say no

1900
01:07:16,549 --> 01:07:15,119
superfluous so yeah

1901
01:07:18,230 --> 01:07:16,559
oh man

1902
01:07:20,230 --> 01:07:18,240
it's great to see you man it's wonderful

1903
01:07:21,670 --> 01:07:20,240
to see you youtube jay i enjoyed our

1904
01:07:23,750 --> 01:07:21,680
chat last time around um with a book

1905
01:07:26,309 --> 01:07:23,760
clip so yeah yeah

1906
01:07:27,990 --> 01:07:26,319
yeah we should do this more often too i

1907
01:07:29,750 --> 01:07:28,000
love the fact that there's no real like

1908
01:07:31,270 --> 01:07:29,760
heart topic or anything and we're just

1909
01:07:32,630 --> 01:07:31,280
like talking about the bigger pictures

1910
01:07:34,630 --> 01:07:32,640
of everything and

1911
01:07:36,230 --> 01:07:34,640
i think it's a good exercise for me

1912
01:07:37,829 --> 01:07:36,240
personally so

1913
01:07:39,990 --> 01:07:37,839
absolutely i enjoyed it

1914
01:07:41,750 --> 01:07:40,000
yeah absolutely hey graham uh where

1915
01:07:44,150 --> 01:07:41,760
where can where can folks find you

1916
01:07:46,470 --> 01:07:44,160
online and do you have any like say a

1917
01:07:48,870 --> 01:07:46,480
new podcast or anything like that

1918
01:07:50,470 --> 01:07:48,880
right fundamentally you should ask that

1919
01:07:53,430 --> 01:07:50,480
um the uh

1920
01:07:54,789 --> 01:07:53,440
unidentified aerial podcast

1921
01:07:56,870 --> 01:07:54,799
is a thing now

1922
01:07:59,109 --> 01:07:56,880
yes so um you can find that where you

1923
01:08:01,029 --> 01:07:59,119
get your good podcasts from uh we're

1924
01:08:04,150 --> 01:08:01,039
part of the anomalous podcast network

1925
01:08:06,549 --> 01:08:04,160
which is uh that ufo podcast little baby

1926
01:08:08,630 --> 01:08:06,559
so we're on with priscilla um

1927
01:08:10,390 --> 01:08:08,640
and then vinnie as well and soon to be

1928
01:08:12,710 --> 01:08:10,400
dan when he gets his uh act together and

1929
01:08:15,109 --> 01:08:12,720
gets his his uh coloring in the the

1930
01:08:16,630 --> 01:08:15,119
lines i believe it's called quite it's

1931
01:08:17,990 --> 01:08:16,640
got it's got a title along that quite

1932
01:08:19,590 --> 01:08:18,000
i'm not entirely sure exactly what it's

1933
01:08:21,829 --> 01:08:19,600
called i'm sure he's going to kill me

1934
01:08:25,110 --> 01:08:21,839
now um so yeah we're all in the same

1935
01:08:28,950 --> 01:08:27,590
network is called um so dave partridge

1936
01:08:31,829 --> 01:08:28,960
from shadows new mind magazine and

1937
01:08:33,749 --> 01:08:31,839
myself we uh do deep dives into various

1938
01:08:36,550 --> 01:08:33,759
parts of ufo history which is right up

1939
01:08:39,910 --> 01:08:36,560
your alley sean yes and yours too

1940
01:08:43,110 --> 01:08:39,920
jay so um we've looked at um the mantel

1941
01:08:46,070 --> 01:08:43,120
case the child's whit head case and the

1942
01:08:48,229 --> 01:08:46,080
uh the the george gorman case from 1948

1943
01:08:50,229 --> 01:08:48,239
so that was our first episode and then

1944
01:08:51,990 --> 01:08:50,239
we've just done an episode which

1945
01:08:54,470 --> 01:08:52,000
probably is going to hit the airwaves

1946
01:08:56,229 --> 01:08:54,480
later tonight early tomorrow morning

1947
01:08:58,789 --> 01:08:56,239
looking at kenneth arnold

1948
01:08:59,669 --> 01:08:58,799
amazing and and the mori island case as

1949
01:09:02,550 --> 01:08:59,679
well

1950
01:09:04,309 --> 01:09:02,560
fantastic so we we we linked those two

1951
01:09:05,910 --> 01:09:04,319
together because they are linked through

1952
01:09:08,309 --> 01:09:05,920
kenneth arnold's involvement in both

1953
01:09:09,669 --> 01:09:08,319
cases so

1954
01:09:11,669 --> 01:09:09,679
that's that's what we're doing so we're

1955
01:09:13,829 --> 01:09:11,679
looking at the 1940s at the moment we'll

1956
01:09:15,990 --> 01:09:13,839
probably record an episode on the foo

1957
01:09:17,669 --> 01:09:16,000
fighters at some stage uh where dave

1958
01:09:19,510 --> 01:09:17,679
hopefully will ask answer me some

1959
01:09:21,189 --> 01:09:19,520
questions but nobody's asked me yet you

1960
01:09:22,149 --> 01:09:21,199
know because i'm looking for those

1961
01:09:24,149 --> 01:09:22,159
things that are going to you know

1962
01:09:25,590 --> 01:09:24,159
stretch me a bit more uh we're doing a

1963
01:09:27,349 --> 01:09:25,600
we're probably going to do an episode on

1964
01:09:28,630 --> 01:09:27,359
roswell because we'll have to honestly

1965
01:09:30,229 --> 01:09:28,640
and then some other things maybe the

1966
01:09:31,590 --> 01:09:30,239
philadelphia experiment and some other

1967
01:09:33,510 --> 01:09:31,600
things like that so you know just

1968
01:09:34,870 --> 01:09:33,520
looking at different things and then

1969
01:09:36,309 --> 01:09:34,880
we'll move on from there once we've

1970
01:09:37,430 --> 01:09:36,319
exhausted the philippines apparently

1971
01:09:39,110 --> 01:09:37,440
yeah

1972
01:09:40,470 --> 01:09:39,120
so that's what that well you might well

1973
01:09:44,550 --> 01:09:40,480
be yeah there's been rumors to that

1974
01:09:48,070 --> 01:09:46,470
with you though so yeah

1975
01:09:50,229 --> 01:09:48,080
you have to give me like half a year's

1976
01:09:51,110 --> 01:09:50,239
notice yeah no slouch you know so don't

1977
01:09:53,590 --> 01:09:51,120
worry

1978
01:09:56,390 --> 01:09:53,600
um if you want to find me uh at border

1979
01:09:58,390 --> 01:09:56,400
750 that's my uh my my twitter address

1980
01:10:01,110 --> 01:09:58,400
um and you can you can find my book on

1981
01:10:03,510 --> 01:10:01,120
amazon the ufos before as well um and

1982
01:10:05,430 --> 01:10:03,520
that's basically it so yeah yeah hit me

1983
01:10:07,750 --> 01:10:05,440
up on twitter dm me if you want to ask

1984
01:10:08,950 --> 01:10:07,760
me anything i'm happy uh my game's

1985
01:10:10,870 --> 01:10:08,960
always open

1986
01:10:12,709 --> 01:10:10,880
absolutely a real pleasure to see you

1987
01:10:13,830 --> 01:10:12,719
today great great friend

1988
01:10:15,590 --> 01:10:13,840
you've been coming on since the

1989
01:10:16,630 --> 01:10:15,600
beginning so i appreciate you graham and

1990
01:10:18,229 --> 01:10:16,640
we will

1991
01:10:19,830 --> 01:10:18,239
talk to you next time

1992
01:10:21,590 --> 01:10:19,840
take care both of you

1993
01:10:22,470 --> 01:10:21,600
see you very soon all right have a good

1994
01:10:23,510 --> 01:10:22,480
one

1995
01:10:25,030 --> 01:10:23,520
good chill

1996
01:10:26,070 --> 01:10:25,040
that guy's awesome

1997
01:10:27,110 --> 01:10:26,080
i love it

1998
01:10:28,390 --> 01:10:27,120
yeah

1999
01:10:31,350 --> 01:10:28,400
i've i've

2000
01:10:32,470 --> 01:10:31,360
i've just had gosh this had been

2001
01:10:34,550 --> 01:10:32,480
thanks to you three or four

2002
01:10:36,390 --> 01:10:34,560
conversations with uh graham and

2003
01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:36,400
everyone has been

2004
01:10:40,070 --> 01:10:37,920
really entertaining i've learned

2005
01:10:41,830 --> 01:10:40,080
something each time and i like his

2006
01:10:43,270 --> 01:10:41,840
energy a lot i think he's got great

2007
01:10:46,310 --> 01:10:43,280
energy

2008
01:10:49,350 --> 01:10:46,320
what i appreciate about us too is the

2009
01:10:51,030 --> 01:10:49,360
fact that we have uh we all come from

2010
01:10:53,750 --> 01:10:51,040
like different sides of the spectrum but

2011
01:10:56,229 --> 01:10:53,760
show how you can have a logical and and

2012
01:10:57,430 --> 01:10:56,239
thorough and deep conversation yet you

2013
01:10:59,750 --> 01:10:57,440
know like

2014
01:11:02,630 --> 01:10:59,760
graham you know even though there may

2015
01:11:04,229 --> 01:11:02,640
not be nuts and bolts on any ships he's

2016
01:11:06,550 --> 01:11:04,239
a nuts and bolts guy

2017
01:11:08,870 --> 01:11:06,560
you are you know you've had pretty

2018
01:11:11,030 --> 01:11:08,880
intense experiences paranormal and

2019
01:11:12,630 --> 01:11:11,040
non-human entity and i've had kind of

2020
01:11:14,229 --> 01:11:12,640
like the middle ground almost

2021
01:11:15,430 --> 01:11:14,239
experienced consciousness-based

2022
01:11:18,070 --> 01:11:15,440
experience

2023
01:11:20,310 --> 01:11:18,080
and but we all kind of

2024
01:11:22,630 --> 01:11:20,320
talk brass text the way it should be

2025
01:11:24,229 --> 01:11:22,640
talked about really you know

2026
01:11:25,669 --> 01:11:24,239
so yeah and i really think that's

2027
01:11:28,229 --> 01:11:25,679
awesome so

2028
01:11:30,070 --> 01:11:28,239
i i love it it's it's about ideas and

2029
01:11:31,110 --> 01:11:30,080
mutual respect and

2030
01:11:32,390 --> 01:11:31,120
and yeah

2031
01:11:33,990 --> 01:11:32,400
and uh

2032
01:11:36,709 --> 01:11:34,000
and appreciating the mysteries for what

2033
01:11:38,070 --> 01:11:36,719
they are and i love that and it's really

2034
01:11:40,870 --> 01:11:38,080
cool

2035
01:11:42,790 --> 01:11:40,880
yeah there you go

2036
01:11:45,030 --> 01:11:42,800
yeah check it out like john actually

2037
01:11:48,390 --> 01:11:45,040
this is my very first shirt with that an

2038
01:11:50,310 --> 01:11:48,400
actual uh flying saucer on it i think

2039
01:11:52,709 --> 01:11:50,320
you know

2040
01:11:55,030 --> 01:11:52,719
now with with one on it my wife got

2041
01:11:56,870 --> 01:11:55,040
those from me from her from her work

2042
01:11:59,189 --> 01:11:56,880
nice yeah when i was a kid i had a

2043
01:12:01,030 --> 01:11:59,199
couple e-t-shirts because you know

2044
01:12:02,229 --> 01:12:01,040
that that movie was pretty big back when

2045
01:12:04,070 --> 01:12:02,239
i was little but

2046
01:12:06,310 --> 01:12:04,080
this is my first one with flying saucers

2047
01:12:08,550 --> 01:12:06,320
so i appreciate it i appreciate it yeah

2048
01:12:10,790 --> 01:12:08,560
you can find the merchandise tab on my

2049
01:12:12,550 --> 01:12:10,800
youtube page it says merchandise on it

2050
01:12:14,630 --> 01:12:12,560
you just click on that you can have

2051
01:12:17,189 --> 01:12:14,640
hoodies shirts

2052
01:12:21,110 --> 01:12:17,199
uh totally organic yeah i'm getting like

2053
01:12:24,229 --> 01:12:21,120
the diapers reusable diapers um

2054
01:12:25,110 --> 01:12:24,239
reusable straws perhaps um bibs

2055
01:12:26,630 --> 01:12:25,120
um

2056
01:12:28,790 --> 01:12:26,640
i will say that i was pretty surprised

2057
01:12:30,790 --> 01:12:28,800
at how good the quality is it's really

2058
01:12:33,189 --> 01:12:30,800
nice for like a print on demand shirt

2059
01:12:35,350 --> 01:12:33,199
it's really really nice um you know what

2060
01:12:37,830 --> 01:12:35,360
actually keep going

2061
01:12:39,430 --> 01:12:37,840
uh i'm like i i i think i'm done with my

2062
01:12:41,990 --> 01:12:39,440
commercial it wasn't really supposed to

2063
01:12:44,470 --> 01:12:42,000
be a commercial i was just gonna i was

2064
01:12:46,149 --> 01:12:44,480
but i haven't worn it on cam before i've

2065
01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:46,159
worn it a few times already but i hadn't

2066
01:12:49,350 --> 01:12:47,520
worn it on camera

2067
01:12:51,669 --> 01:12:49,360
and sean was kind of ribbing me about it

2068
01:12:53,189 --> 01:12:51,679
before we went on

2069
01:12:54,709 --> 01:12:53,199
you don't have one of those rules where

2070
01:12:56,229 --> 01:12:54,719
it's like you can't wear your band shirt

2071
01:12:57,990 --> 01:12:56,239
to the gig do you have that kind of rule

2072
01:13:00,790 --> 01:12:58,000
because that's understandable but kind

2073
01:13:04,229 --> 01:13:00,800
of kind of kind of okay but it's okay

2074
01:13:07,030 --> 01:13:04,239
you did it sorry i blew it

2075
01:13:08,149 --> 01:13:07,040
i apologize i need more models you know

2076
01:13:09,830 --> 01:13:08,159
it's it's

2077
01:13:11,110 --> 01:13:09,840
it's good that people know they exist

2078
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:11,120
you know because we can't have like a

2079
01:13:15,430 --> 01:13:13,440
merch stand in the corner or anything so

2080
01:13:16,950 --> 01:13:15,440
exactly well

2081
01:13:18,709 --> 01:13:16,960
i wore the shirt so that you don't have

2082
01:13:19,669 --> 01:13:18,719
to how about that

2083
01:13:20,870 --> 01:13:19,679
perfect

2084
01:13:23,030 --> 01:13:20,880
it's good

2085
01:13:26,310 --> 01:13:23,040
yeah you do i appreciate you love you

2086
01:13:28,709 --> 01:13:26,320
bro and we will see you soon

2087
01:13:45,310 --> 01:13:28,719
absolutely all right bye everybody have